It's not looking good is it?

[Saggingninja]

Have NC for this. I'll try not to drip feed.

Been together for fifteen years. I have a DD from a previous marriage.

We don't live together, partly because my previous marriage was very bad and I wanted to make a secure home for myself and my daughter. I then met my DP a few years later. He has three grown children and has always been a very good stepfather to my daughter. He often comes to stay with me and when my daughter stays with her dad (who lives nearby) I stay with him. It suits us both.

While staying with DP for Christmas, I noticed a card from a mutual female friend of ours (let's call her Helen) - very flirty and clearly referring to a hotel along the lines of 'don't go there again'. The word 'again' has stuck in my mind. I asked him what this meant and he said 'no idea'. He then said the card was 'years old'. I couldn't remember seeing that card before but I had nowhere to put this information so even though I was disturbed by it, I let it go. Then later that day when I was home, I received an email from Helen, hoping I'd had a great Christmas and chatting about seeing an actress friend of hers in a play, in a regional theatre, a few hours from where she (Helen) lives. My heart began crashing because the location of the theatre was on the train route which went past this hotel that my DP had 'no idea' about. The three weeks during which the play was on (so the time that my DP and Helen might have seen each other) I didn't see DP at all because I was so busy. And I knew that train route so well because I used to use that train route all the time when visiting my mother in hospital.

Helen and I have been close for several years. I'm fond of her husband and her teenage children. I love her company and I can't bear to think she might have betrayed me.

Putting the email and the card together put my friend and my DP together. I knew it was all circumstantial but my instincts were telling me something was up. DP said he had phoned Helen and (surprise) she couldn't remember making this reference to this hotel either. Surely I couldn't believe that 'he or she would betray me like this' etc etc.

I rang the hotel but neither of their names was on the hotel's list going back the whole of that year.

Not wanting to snoop (and to be honest it would be difficult because we don't live together) I asked him for access to his phone records which would reassure me. He texted that he would two days ago. I've heard nothing since.

I've heard nothing from Helen either although DP says he has spoken to her on the phone. If DP suspected me and I had the means to prove my innocence I would want to end his distress asap and hand over my phone records like a shot. He hasn't which says he has something to hide. Either that or he is angry with me for 'questioning' him and is punishing me. But that would be such a shitty thing to do.

Oh an his previous marriage ended when he had an affair with a friend of his (then) wife.

Please help. I'm feeling blank and physically cold. The script as I understand it is deny deny, then when you can't deny any more, minimise. We're still on denial.

[InTheBox]

sagging I did note the difference in my last post. I know they are two different things but I also think they are two sides of the same coin. Do you intend to ask him to prove himself in the future if you're uncertain? Once you start on this road, where does it really stop?

[GruntledOne]

DP has form for fucking his partner's friends.

Not really, he did it once years ago. I suspect he's not hurrying with the phone records because he's pissed off - I certainly would be. Or maybe he just hasn't got them easily to hand, not everyone keeps them.

[Jackie0]

Jackie why is it 'not on' to ask for phone records? He has form for shagging his wife's friends


Firstly its an invasion of his privacy, but no good can come of it anyway.
It isn't dignified and remaining dignified at times like this is something you will never regret.
If I were innocent and asked to prove it with phone records I would refuse, and I'd be offended .
If he is guilty he will explain away whatever evidence you find and continue to deny it anyway.
As another poster said it is a road to madness, you wouldn't be satisifed and where would it stop?
You don't trust him and no matter what his call history is its unlikely to change anything.

I do understand your need for answers though, its a horrible head space to be in.
I would distance myself a bit to be honest, if he loves you he should be making some effort to show it.
Step back and see what he does, that will speak volumes.

[Goingtobeawesome]

It sounds like you don't trust him so the relationship is over.

[Unexpectedsocialist]

Firstly OP, sorry to hear about the situation.

So either:

He's cheating, and lying about it, true to form from previous relationships. Therefore there is no reason you should put up with him and the relationship should end.

or:

He's done nothing wrong, you have concocted this whole thing in your head. Not only that but you are punishing him for something that he did in a previous relationship, and shown you don't have any trust in him by asking for his phone records. In which case there is no reason he should put up with you and the relationship should end.

In answer to your question OP, no, it's not looking good. I guess the question is, do you really want to find out which of those scenarios it is?

[Saggingninja]

Imperial I didn't 'refuse' to live with him. When we met his children were in high school and my daughter was in nursery. Neither of us wanted to pull our children out of their school. I wanted to live near my ex so he could continue to see his daughter regularly. Also I did not DEMAND to see phone records. I asked him and said that if I were wrong I would apologise profusely to him and Helen but I needed the reassurance.

Only - I don't understand the reference to the hotel either. I've never stopped him or complained about him having lunch or dinner with friends. I trusted him. He got very jealous early on in our relationship. I remember him suddenly getting into a state about an imaginary boyfriend and I didn't mock him or say he was paranoid. I reassured him. I showed him my phone bills so he could see for his itemised self that there were no numbers he didn't recognise.

[OwlCurrency]

Asking someone for records of their calls is not on. Notwithstanding this incredibly tenuous evidence.

Sorry, OP. I know you're stressed. But you need to either trust him or chuck him.

[Duckdeamon]

You clearly don't trust him, unsurprisingly given his history.

Wonder if his jealousy was / is because he's a cheat himself so doesn't trust others.

[Kelsoooo]

What can you prove with phone records though?

They're friends so of course her number will be on there.

Chances are you will see loads of numbers you don't recognise and get even more distressed

[Bakeoffcake]

the hotel went through their whole years register and told you they hadn't stayed there?

I'm sorry but its illegal for them to give out info like that.

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

To me this evidence doesn't point to that he's definitely cheated. I think his history is more the issue. I would be telling him outright you want the truth or it's over.

[Helmetbymidnight]

She sent him a flirty card mentioning a hotel again.

I don't send my friend's partners flirty cards.

She's no friend of yours...

I guess there isn't much point tackling her, because she's gone underground now.

Trust your instincts.

[juls1888]

I'd be asking her for her take on it. Worst case scenario, is something going on and she actually wants to get caught that she's set the card thing up and sent you an email about the play? It doesn't sound good at all I'm afraid.

[NotNowBono]

If I were having an affair with my friend's boyfriend I wouldn't refer to it in a christmas card that she would almost certainly read. Surely? Is there really no other explanation for her comment?

AND even if I wasn't having an affair with my girlfriend's friend, I would be a bit narked at her wanting to see my phone records to check who I had and hadn't been calling, in my own free time. And then discovering she'd called a hotel to comb through their records to see if I'd been having a sneaky shag there (data protection, much?). It might be dressed up as 'if you've got nothing to hide you wouldn't mind' but it's really 'I don't trust a word you say, you sneaky fucker, and you've got form, so I have every right to check up on you and you're guilty until proved innocent'.

Maybe that's fair enough. Maybe your instincts are spot on, and he's a serial cheat. But you've been together fifteen years - is this the first time you've had reason to suspect him? Your OP reads as if you've gone from 0 - it's over in about ten seconds. The thing that isn't looking good is that you clearly don't trust him at all.

[NotNowBono]

^^ or yes, she wants you to find out. Is that likely?

[Saggingninja]

Thanks for your replies. I think I'll back off, and try to get some perspective. I've never questioned him before and we've been together for a long time. I love him but I don't think it's wrong to ask him for reassurance this one time.

[NanaNina]

I disagree with most posters. Why would DP have this Christmas card on show if there was something suspicious in it. What exactly did the card say OP as you refer to it being "flirty" - the thing about the hotel is a bit weird but I think this business of the play and the hotel is you putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, and IF there was something going on, why would your friend make a point of telling you about the play, unless she is very spiteful and it doesn't sound like she is.

Re seeing phone records - I'm ambivalent about this - I think it's a bit embarrassing to be honest and must feel like being treated like a child. And he could have deleted anything he didn't want you to see in any event.

IF there's anything going on it will become clear over time, but I don't think there is. Agree with not now

[NanaNina]

I disagree with most posters. Why would DP have this Christmas card on show if there was something suspicious in it. What exactly did the card say OP as you refer to it being "flirty" - the thing about the hotel is a bit weird but I think this business of the play and the hotel is you putting 2 and 2 together and making 5, and IF there was something going on, why would your friend make a point of telling you about the play, unless she is very spiteful and it doesn't sound like she is.

Re seeing phone records - I'm ambivalent about this - I think it's a bit embarrassing to be honest and must feel like being treated like a child. And he could have deleted anything he didn't want you to see in any event.

IF there's anything going on it will become clear over time, but I don't think there is. Agree with not now

[NanaNina]

Sorry for duplicate post

[OnlyLovers]

OP, no, I mean I don't understand the wording/meaning of it. I'd have thought if it was an assignation, she'd have said something like 'We'd better not go there again or we'll be caught' or similar?

'Don't go there again' almost sounds like 'I heard you went to that hotel – it's terrible, I wouldn't recommend it.'

But anyway, sorry, perhaps I'm just quibbling unnecessarily and what she wrote (I know you were paraphrasing) did sound more like 'We'd better not go there again.'

[Canshopwillshop]

I agree with Notnow. Also shocked that the hotel would give out personal information like this! Of course, they could also have booked in as 'Mr and Mrs Smith' so that doesn't prove or disprove anything either.

[SpecialistSnowflake]

Well he'll have briefed her by now, so there's no point contacting her.

Presumably while living apart and being together for 15 years you've not been regularly accusing him of cheating. So this is different. Trust your instincts.

His behaviour, and hers, is definitely suspicious. He is doing the classic 'Huh, what? If I keep acting vague and confused you'll have nowhere to go with this and will have to shut up about it or I'll make you look paranoid and neurotic' bit (luckily, you know all about minimizing - especially helpful considering some of the comments on this thread), and she is dropping clanging great clues, probably not because she wants you to find out, but because she'd just like you to suspect.

[SpecialistSnowflake]

Why would DP have this Christmas card on show if there was something suspicious in it.

Well he told her the card was years old. Does he dig out every card he's ever received every December to display?

[summerwinterton]

If he was unfaithful previously then it is more likely he will be unfaithful again I think. I think if you need to see phone records and snoop to this extent it is over. If you find nothing you will keep looking, if you find something then what will it prove? And I don't believe any reputable hotel would go back through their records over a year to give out info to a stranger over the phone - sorry.