It's not looking good is it?

[Saggingninja]

Have NC for this. I'll try not to drip feed.

Been together for fifteen years. I have a DD from a previous marriage.

We don't live together, partly because my previous marriage was very bad and I wanted to make a secure home for myself and my daughter. I then met my DP a few years later. He has three grown children and has always been a very good stepfather to my daughter. He often comes to stay with me and when my daughter stays with her dad (who lives nearby) I stay with him. It suits us both.

While staying with DP for Christmas, I noticed a card from a mutual female friend of ours (let's call her Helen) - very flirty and clearly referring to a hotel along the lines of 'don't go there again'. The word 'again' has stuck in my mind. I asked him what this meant and he said 'no idea'. He then said the card was 'years old'. I couldn't remember seeing that card before but I had nowhere to put this information so even though I was disturbed by it, I let it go. Then later that day when I was home, I received an email from Helen, hoping I'd had a great Christmas and chatting about seeing an actress friend of hers in a play, in a regional theatre, a few hours from where she (Helen) lives. My heart began crashing because the location of the theatre was on the train route which went past this hotel that my DP had 'no idea' about. The three weeks during which the play was on (so the time that my DP and Helen might have seen each other) I didn't see DP at all because I was so busy. And I knew that train route so well because I used to use that train route all the time when visiting my mother in hospital.

Helen and I have been close for several years. I'm fond of her husband and her teenage children. I love her company and I can't bear to think she might have betrayed me.

Putting the email and the card together put my friend and my DP together. I knew it was all circumstantial but my instincts were telling me something was up. DP said he had phoned Helen and (surprise) she couldn't remember making this reference to this hotel either. Surely I couldn't believe that 'he or she would betray me like this' etc etc.

I rang the hotel but neither of their names was on the hotel's list going back the whole of that year.

Not wanting to snoop (and to be honest it would be difficult because we don't live together) I asked him for access to his phone records which would reassure me. He texted that he would two days ago. I've heard nothing since.

I've heard nothing from Helen either although DP says he has spoken to her on the phone. If DP suspected me and I had the means to prove my innocence I would want to end his distress asap and hand over my phone records like a shot. He hasn't which says he has something to hide. Either that or he is angry with me for 'questioning' him and is punishing me. But that would be such a shitty thing to do.

Oh an his previous marriage ended when he had an affair with a friend of his (then) wife.

Please help. I'm feeling blank and physically cold. The script as I understand it is deny deny, then when you can't deny any more, minimise. We're still on denial.

[SpecialistSnowflake]

I think Helen wanted you to know, or at least was enjoying the deception too much.

Yep, that's part of the thrill for some people. I know the done thing on MN is to leave the OW alone, but in this case it seems like she was throwing pretty blatant clues your way. Throw some her husbands way... Or just flat out tell him, that would be simpler!

I wonder why he randomly called to confess just now?

It's happening now. She asked to see his phone records and he's probably realized that he can't wriggle out of it.

[NotNowBono]

Woah - that puts a very different slant on things! I'm so sorry these two people you should have been able to trust implicitly have let you down so badly. They're idiots. What a waste of a long relationship and a good friendship. And yes, unfortunately that 'one night stand' sounds a bit convenient.

Not sure I'd actually want to see the phone records now. You don't really trust him anyway, so it's not as if it'd be easy to rebuild a trusting foundation after this - you'd be forever looking over your shoulder, and that's no way to live.

[Saggingninja]

I don't know why he chose to phone me now. Maybe it's a way of avoiding showing me the phone bills which might indicate a full blown affair. Isn't the next part of the script 'minimising'?

I'm not going to tell Helen's husband. It would only cause further pain - him and the children. And however wronged I might be - it would feel spiteful.

sofa I really don't think Helen wanted me to know. She's got so much to lose. I think what happened was she sent this card and he either forgot to put it away or realised that while it was flirty it didn't prove anything. And then she sends me an email - linking the two in my mind. She didn't know he hadn't gotten rid of the card. And he didn't know she was emailing me.

It reads like a crappy detective story.

I have to keep it together as my sweet girl is home from school any minute. Jesus and it's going to hurt her so much too - she saw him as her stepfather. No of course I'm not going to tell her.

Thanks again xxxxxxxxxxx

[hellsbellsmelons]

I'm sorry OP.
All the people saying it could be innocent and it's wrong to ask for phone records etc.... do one!
It's not.
You just 'knew' something was wrong and like a huge percentage of us who get this gut feel, you were absolutely right.
You were right to ask for phone records.
Blimey on here, you can't snoop it's an invasion of privacy and now you can't confront and ask for proof! Dear lord - really!?

As you said earlier the script is to deny then minimise so I would assume one night stand means a bit more than that I'm afraid.

I think you need to take yourself away from all of this and get your head around it.
You know you are in shock and it's probably no the only revelation you will come across in the coming months.

Please do try to look after yourself.
Block him if you need to get some head-space without him able to access it.

This guy is a cheat - he won't every change - so sorry

[SpecialistSnowflake]

Well, you're a better person than me OP! Don't you think she was being spiteful in what she said to you? I understand why you don't want to sink to that level though.

I'd assume it was an affair (or at least was going to be) and proceed from there.

[LoTeQuiero]

sagging - it's just a mix up of Spanish words :)

I'm with you on honesty getting you through. Has he ever given you cause for suspicion before? Or is this card the first thing that's worried you? I'm also a huge believer in gut instinct....

[LoTeQuiero]

Oh Jesus. Hadn't read your update. So sorry.

How did he sound? What are you going to do?

[whoreandpeace]

Do you think he gets a thrill of seducing the dear friends of his partners? 15 years ..... who else has he slept with? Sorry to ask this question and possibly upset you, but I can't believe his willy has stayed in his pants all that time. He's got form. Sounds like he can't help himself. OP - do be careful. He wants cake and to eat it. Don't bake cake.

[littleleftie]

If you really don't want to tell him I would just text her saying "I will be telling husbands name when I am good and ready. Sleep well."

What a nasty pair of shits they are. It would eat away at me to think they had got away with it scot free. I wouldn't be able to put it behind me without telling him myself but of course you must do whatever is best for you OP.

[Goldenhandshake]

I may be going against the grain here but her husband deserves to know what a devious fucker his wife is. I would tell her she has 48 hrs to tell him herself, or you would do it for her. If my DH was having an affair, and no one let me know about it I'd be raging and hurt.

[ThatsNotMyRabbit]

I'd definitely tell her husband. I think it's unkind not to.

However if you can't/won't, I would say DEFINITELY send the text that littlelaura suggests.

Bitch deserves to sweat.

[ImperialBlether]

I'm really sorry this has happened to you, particularly with your friend and particularly given you thought all that cheating with friends was behind him when you got together. It's a multiple betrayal.

While he's in admitting mode, you should ask him about that other one, with the letter inside the book. If you don't get the truth out of him now, you risk never knowing and it will really niggle away at you. If you do find out he was cheating with someone else, too, it might make your decision easier.

Btw, he really does stay within a close circle, doesn't he?

[ImperialBlether]

Regarding telling the husband - now three out of the four of you know. In his position I would be furious if I wasn't told.

[SfaOkaySuperFurryAnimals]

So sorry for you right now ninja
Well done you though for following your gut, I am sorry it hurts fir you and your daughter, in the weeks that follow you will start to see its better to know for sure.
for him and her, they deserve each other, I don't think it I my place to say you should tell her husband, I feel sorry for him not knowing though. If he had worked it out first, would you have thought him spiteful informing you?
Hope you can hold your head high and get yourself / your daughter through this.

[SfaOkaySuperFurryAnimals]

YY Imperial, indeed I would feel that way too...

[Jan45]

Scum, bad enough his relationship history but to shag your friend and then make out it's a ONS - liar.

[sofato5miles]

How often do you and your DP usually see each other, does he live nearby? How often do you see Helen, do you have to arrange it or do you see each other in the same circle?

[Saggingninja]

That'sNotMyRabbit and Imperial - I see what you're saying, but she will already know that I know. I'm almost certain that DP will have contacted her to get their story straight. As he's confessed to a one night stand, it's likely he and she have talked about both saying the same thing - in case I swallow that story. So she'll be very nervous anyway. I may tell her h, but I'm in too much of a fog right now. I don't trust myself to make good decisions.

We've been together for 15 years and although I could kill him I'm still in love with him. He's coming to see me on Friday (can't do tomorrow for work reasons) as after all this time I don't want to end it on the phone. I'd really appreciate some advice on what he's likely to say and how I can have this horrible conversation with dignity.

xx

[SuperFlyHigh]

Sorry OP.

From my PoV that'd be both the friendship and relationship over. Not sure I'd be kind to either of them either. I suppose I'd want to know why from his pov but you may not want to know that. What a twat he is.

[Saggingninja]

Smorg - no I never said to him that if it were a one night stand we might be able to get through it with counselling. Really. I just think that he might be minimising. If he admits to a one night stand and grovels or blames Helen entirely - whatever - it might prevent me STILL asking for those phone records which might prove he's been shagging her for a long while.

[Jan45]

He will lie and minimise OP, they all do the same and are all as predictable as rain.

Terrible, the ONS to them sounds better than admitting a full blown affair involving sneaking about and telling lies to you and her OH.

Your dignity is in tact OP, he's the loser, not you.

[SuperFlyHigh]

I think he will say... Maybe he is not in love with her, moment of madness etc.

With his previous form I'd tell him to take a running jump I may reconsider if he hadn't done this before.

[Jan45]

You need the phone records, neither will admit to an affair.

You are already on it with eyes wide open, good luck on Friday, please don't take him back, you'd be far better finding a man that can keep it in his pants, men like him never change, they are opportunists, sad really, he must really lack moral fibre.

[Jan45]

Oh and he will protest that SHE pursued him relentlessly....sigh....same old.

[Goldenhandshake]

You already have your dignity, he is the low life here.

Keep as calm as possible, write down some questions you want answers to before hand, and put them in a logical order. Tell him straight out that he must be 100% honest regardless of how awful it exposes him to being. If there is even an inkling of a lie, or covering up, tell him to leave immediately. I'd also forewarn him that you expect his printed out phone records going back the last 3 months to be with him on Friday.

That's how i'd try and play it, you may decide differently, I'd be tempted to switch to raging banshee mode but I don't think that will achieve anything.