It's not looking good is it?

[Saggingninja]

Have NC for this. I'll try not to drip feed.

Been together for fifteen years. I have a DD from a previous marriage.

We don't live together, partly because my previous marriage was very bad and I wanted to make a secure home for myself and my daughter. I then met my DP a few years later. He has three grown children and has always been a very good stepfather to my daughter. He often comes to stay with me and when my daughter stays with her dad (who lives nearby) I stay with him. It suits us both.

While staying with DP for Christmas, I noticed a card from a mutual female friend of ours (let's call her Helen) - very flirty and clearly referring to a hotel along the lines of 'don't go there again'. The word 'again' has stuck in my mind. I asked him what this meant and he said 'no idea'. He then said the card was 'years old'. I couldn't remember seeing that card before but I had nowhere to put this information so even though I was disturbed by it, I let it go. Then later that day when I was home, I received an email from Helen, hoping I'd had a great Christmas and chatting about seeing an actress friend of hers in a play, in a regional theatre, a few hours from where she (Helen) lives. My heart began crashing because the location of the theatre was on the train route which went past this hotel that my DP had 'no idea' about. The three weeks during which the play was on (so the time that my DP and Helen might have seen each other) I didn't see DP at all because I was so busy. And I knew that train route so well because I used to use that train route all the time when visiting my mother in hospital.

Helen and I have been close for several years. I'm fond of her husband and her teenage children. I love her company and I can't bear to think she might have betrayed me.

Putting the email and the card together put my friend and my DP together. I knew it was all circumstantial but my instincts were telling me something was up. DP said he had phoned Helen and (surprise) she couldn't remember making this reference to this hotel either. Surely I couldn't believe that 'he or she would betray me like this' etc etc.

I rang the hotel but neither of their names was on the hotel's list going back the whole of that year.

Not wanting to snoop (and to be honest it would be difficult because we don't live together) I asked him for access to his phone records which would reassure me. He texted that he would two days ago. I've heard nothing since.

I've heard nothing from Helen either although DP says he has spoken to her on the phone. If DP suspected me and I had the means to prove my innocence I would want to end his distress asap and hand over my phone records like a shot. He hasn't which says he has something to hide. Either that or he is angry with me for 'questioning' him and is punishing me. But that would be such a shitty thing to do.

Oh an his previous marriage ended when he had an affair with a friend of his (then) wife.

Please help. I'm feeling blank and physically cold. The script as I understand it is deny deny, then when you can't deny any more, minimise. We're still on denial.

[Saggingninja]

Nana IF there was something going on, why would your friend make a point of telling you about the play, unless she is very spiteful and it doesn't sound like she is.

Nana, no she's not spiteful at all.

The card being left out could have been an accident. There were a lot of cards lying about and I just happened to pick that one up. And if I had only read the card, I might have let it go. As I said in my original post I had no reason to suspect Helen or DP. But in a total coincidence on that same day Helen sent me that email which connected the location of the hotel with the regional theatre she was visiting. Still a coincidence. But she wouldn't have known that when I received her email I had just read the card as well.

So maybe I am doing 2 + 2 = 5.

Maybe not. Maybe DP is angry at me for asking for proof. But as far as I know you can't delete or change online itemised phone bills.

Anyway. Taking several deep breaths and going out for a long walk to clear my head.

Thanks again for your helpful replies. I'll let you know what happens.

[goddessofsmallthings]

Is it just this one incident with the Christmas card, or have you previously had reason to suspect that he was playing away with ow during the course of your 15 year relationship?

[Saggingninja]

Goddess Is it just this one incident with the Christmas card, or have you previously had reason to suspect that he was playing away with ow during the course of your 15 year relationship?

There was another incident (I'd forgotten about this) about two years ago when I picked up a book from under his bed and a note fell out from the woman he was seeing before me. (He had been married, had an affair with his wife's friend, they had divorced, then he met someone else and was with her for about two years. They broke up and then he met me shortly after.) I chose to believe this version of events because - either I trust or I don't.

I found this note which was from his previous girlfriend saying that she didn't know how to turn him on. No date. I was but accepted his explanation that she had given him this note while they were going out together. Even though I sort of remembered picking up this book a week or so previously and not finding any such note.

I chose to believe him. Maybe I was a fool.

[wannaBe]

I think that A, it's not on to demand phone records and B, completely out of order to bring up the past, a past which you accepted was part of him when you got together, in order to justify suspicions.

You have been together for fifteen years, in this time you've never had reason to distrust him, or so you say, and now that you have some kind of spurious reason to think that something happened you say that "he has form for fucking his wife's friends."

I have no idea obviously what happened in his past, and how he explained the fact he cheated on his ex not just the once but with others. But however he did that, you obviously accepted what he said for fifteen years. to throw that back in his face now is low tbh. If I had a past like that and a partner threw it back in my face fifteen years down the line the relationship would be over for that alone.

This has nothing to do with the past. It has to do with the relationship you are in now.. If you don't trust him, then leave him. But whatever is going on is going on now and not fifteen years ago, neither does what happened fifteen years ago have any bearing on what happened now.

[iMatter]

Do you think your dp told Helen you'd found the card and her email reference later that day to the play was her way (for whatever reason) of telling you about her affair with your dp? Otherwise it would seem like a massive coincidence.

[GruntledOne]

It sounds to me as if his is a 2+2=5 case. What it comes down to is that the friend saw a play in a location which happens to be on a train route where a hotel she mentioned once is located. So, for instance, the theatre is in Winchester and the hotel is in Woking. No evidence that either of them actually stayed in Woking, it just happens to be a place which is reachable from Winchester. Other considerations aside, surely if your friend was staying overnight, she'd have stayed in a hotel near the theatre?

[Saggingninja]

DP has just phoned me to say he and Helen had a one night stand. He begged me not to leave him. I was too shocked to speak.

Still am.

[littleleftie]

LTB - it's the script. A one night stand? Really? With your friend? How did that just happen then?

So sorry OP but this is shit and you know it.

[whoreandpeace]

Wow! So your instincts were right. Poor you. You must be feeling so let down by both him and this friend, Helen. Of course, it might be more than a one-night stand. What an idiot to display her card. How arrogant is he to do that, showing off his trophies. Did he want you to find out? I can offer no advice, just a metaphorical hug. I guess you have some thinking to do. Poor OP xx

[whoreandpeace]

OMG - just read back and see that Helen has a DH and teenage children. She has a lot to lose then ..... as well as your friendship ..... I wonder if she knows that he was going to tell you about it? If it was me I would give her a call and very calmly say "I know all about it" and put the phone down. Let her do some thinking .....

[Jackie0]

Oh sagging ninja, I'm so sorry

[FellOutOfBedTwice]

Fuck that then. He's fucked someone else and lied for weeks. LTB.

[Duckdeamon]

LTB. What else has he lied about eh?

[Duckdeamon]

Sounds like he's a serial cheater.

[SpecialistSnowflake]

Ugh.

And 'next time' in that card? I bet he's still trying to minimize....

[littleleftie]

If I were OP I would be on the phone to Helens husband by now. What sort of "friend" does that? Not that I am passing blame from the DP. He is obviously at primary fault here.

I know you must be in shock OP, but happier times will come. Just be glad you never married this loser or have to throw him out of your house, or see him to have access to DC.

[tea]

[ScarlettDarling]

What an arse. Have a good long think before you decide what to do op but he sounds like a bad un to me. Don't think I'd be able to trust him again after that, it might be time to call it a day.

Sorry you're having to go through all of this

[Helmetbymidnight]

I'd also call Helen's husband. She has fucked you over. And with the horrible, chatty email - to try and find out what you know?

OP, you have great instincts. Trust yourself to do the right thing.

[Joysmum]

He was a serial cheater with his ex and now has continued to do the same to you.

So sorry this has happened to you and that you've lost a friend over it too. So glad that at least you don't live together.

I'm a big believer in confronting and I was happy to reassure my DH when he was feeling insecure (the first time I lost all my weight) just as he was when we first started out and I was fucked up back then.

I wouldn't trust anyone who's first thoughts weren't to be saddened that their partner didn't feel secure in their love and chose to be angry, accusatory or dismissive instead.

[OnlyLovers]

Oh, I'm sorry, OP. At least he's confessed, which makes that aspect of it easier –you don't have to drag it out of him.

Have some .

Do you know what you're going to do?

[sofato5miles]

Oh god, you poor thing. Why did he call and not come and speak to you - spineless wanker.

I wouldn't tell the husband in this case but i would sever the friendship immediately. How stupid was she to send the card. It will robably all come out anyway but I wouldn't be the one to deliver the news.

Something is niggling at me here. I think Helen wanted you to know, or at least was enjoying the deception too much.

[whoreandpeace]

I agree with Sofa - don't tell Helen's husband - why upset someone else. But I would let Helen know that you know and make her stew and cross her off your Christmas card list - forever. Personally I think 'one night stand' is probably not the whole truth, but your P is trying to minimise the affair. He just wants the status quo back - you loving him and having Helen around for some fun and frolics. Poor OP - you have been betrayed by two people close to you. I cannot imagine how sick you must be feeling. I wonder why he chose to call and tell you this just at this moment today?

[inlectorecumbit]

wow..and she is supposed to be your friend....
He has history and lots of it. He simply cant keep it in his pants can he, he will continue to cheat. Ditch the pair of them (some friend she is) and forward the text to Helen's DH as he too deserves to know his wife is a cheat. In fact l would probably text Helen herself and give her 24 hours to tell her H before you do,
You both probably need STI checks--sorry

[WickedWax]

I wonder why he randomly called to confess just now?

Well he's stayed true to past form and you can choose to continue the relationship, or not, with that in mind.

[Smorgasboard]

Did you by any chance let him know that, if it was a one night stand, you may be able to get past it with counselling? Strange how he has then come up with exactly that as an explanation.
I'd say either he is telling you what he thinks he may get away with or he's got access to your MN.
At least you have kept each other at arms length for 15 years and put your kids first so not too complicated to get out of.