Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

Wouldn't it be great, Aye? If I have enough wine, I might do it anyway.
Thank you Kitty. But you know, this is the weird thing. It's not like I've been silent about how I feel. I am quite feisty when we argue and I have told him straight exactly what I think he's doing, why he's doing it, what effect it will have and I have threatened to leave before (the only time I actually saw him show a bit of remorse). Of course beneath all this, I am still deeply intimidated by him and his control over me and I hate it when I cry in front of him because it makes me look even weaker and has no effect on him anyway. Shouting or not saying anything, makes no difference.

Yes, the bastard would probably just laugh and say she's nuts, what are you on about, don't listen to her and downplay the whole thing. Perfectly capable of twisting it around and making me look the idiot.
I do feel inspired to regain my financial independence though, based on what some of you have said. As a weapon, if nothing else.

Nothing you say makes any difference. A lawyer on the other hand...

Yep Giddy, I'd make a crap lawyer no need to rub it in

It would, but I'd worry that you're so upset that you wouldn't be able to say it in a casualish way, it would come out all angry and then your friends wouldn't know what to do!

But of you've had wine, and are feeling detached enough, then when he (inevitably) beings up something money-and-bragging related you could scoff "pah! THIS from the man who wouldn't allow me to buy the children uniforms".

Let the tumbleweed roll...

And then if he gets flustered and denies it you can say "well at least you have the sense to be embarrassed, I thought you thought your behaviour was entirely normal and reasonable".

I'd cheer you if I was there! But your friends might just be bewildered.

Willing to come along and sit in the corner and wait for my cue though

Ah you and me both :) Or did I miss the bit where you were formerly a SHL

Oh Aye! If only it were to go like that! I'd have to go to the loo and do a dance.
But yick...if he does mention anything show offy, I honestly don't know how I'll handle it. Sit on my hands and look at the floor, probably. The couple in question happen to be very well off (and lovely) so no doubt his competitive side will be out in force. I'm dreading it.

Perhaps you need to go left field? Every time it gets to money start producing pictures of the DC or the ironing or the washing and being slightly I'm the supporting role with a manic glint in your eye.

Giddy. Thank you lot for making me laugh and giving me some light relief!

I believe you have argued against him. I think you haven't known how to respond when he denies reality. What to do about it. You might have ducked conflict ... you said it - deeply intimidated by him. He has trained you. He holds you in such contempt that when you name his game (he knows you know exactly what he is doing) he intimidates you and ignores you. It's quite chilling.

Hiya, OP. What strikes me is that he is committing a crime with this behaviour and that you are not in such a bad position, even as an unmarried SAHP, as you own at least half the house and would, like any mother, be entitled to child maintenance. What you could not get are half his savings, but hell, you would get rid of this man, that must be worth gold. People who turn into their horrible parents are such a nightmare. I had a friend who was lovely and always criticised her mother. A few years went past and she was identical to her mother, so sad.

Practice seeing the funny side of your braggard spouse being a miser at home, so that you can very lightly and effectively point out that he complained about a present of seven pounds fifty for a child. Practice an "oh hasn't he got funny little ways"

I agree, that when out with these friends, when he starts on about new car/TV, you should say something, "It's strange that he feels he can afford that with our family money, as we seem to have a cashflow problem, in view of the scenes we have over a £7.50 for a birthday present & every other imaginable household expense, but then of course, that's not all about him & his showing off."
Watch out for angry scenes when you get home !
I would be buying things on the store card, the taking some items back & getting a refund in cash. open up your own personal bank account (no statements by post, or sent to your parents) & save enough money for a lawyer. or simply ask your parents for a loan.
What did he say when you said you wanted a monthly allowance ???
Please believe me, that this will never change. he is controlling where you go, who you see, & what you do, by strangling you financially.

Sorry you're going through this OP, definitely NOT normal. Family money is shared and equally accessed, you are not an employee! He sounds like he's loving the power trip. Some great advice on this thread.

Please don't do that, Mo. He is massively abusive and if you show him up in front of people he wants to impress he will be very, very angry. No matter how well he seems to take it in public, he will be seething when he gets home.

I don't know if this helps with what is 'normal' but although neither of us is a SAHP I outearn my DP significantly (£97k vs. £10k).

I always say that the joint income is 'our' money. We always discuss any big purchases in terms of 'our' finances and make a joint decision on them as equal partners. I always tell my DP that there are many ways of contributing to a relationship and money is only one of those ways.

DP doesn't have a lot left over after he's paid for his petrol to/from work and for his credit card so we agreed he can keep his £155 p/month leftover for personal purchases and paying his card off quicker as clearing the debt and him having a bit of freedom is more important to the relationship than me having a little money towards the bills which I can cover easily myself.

This is how a respectful relationship works...if he was a SAHP and we had a joint account I wouldn't expect him to ask permission to spend money as I would trust him to discuss any big purchases with me. We would just have a review of the account vs. our budget at the end of each month to check we were BOTH sticking to our budget.

I think the way your DH is acting is, not necessarily abusive, but certainly totally unreasonable. I would try again to talk about it and if that didn't work would be going down the route of 'we have relationship counselling or I'm out as this isn't working for me'.

Obvs total personal opinion X

Describing his behaviour as totally unreasonable is an understatement.

Financial control is abusive behaviour; Angrymo is being continually controlled by this man in all aspects of her life. She has no freedom and no proper access to money. He controls all this and he has given her a prepaid store card. I also note without surprise that his father was exactly out of the same, the apple did not fall far from the rotten tree.

Joint counselling is a complete non starter here.

Calling out bad behaviour in public can sometimes be a great idea as it gets people on your side but it will not change him and don't expect it to.
My h has been doing therapy to overcome his controlling ways. In some ways his acceptance of his problems has helped usand it was nice for me to feel vindicated. But much damage has been done and things are never the same.
Don't hope for a miracle turnaround. Even with therapy on both sides I am still struggling with feeling controlled.
Your story is very similar to mine. Having to explain everything you do our doing it his way or not at all. It is soul destroying.
Dint lose yourself or give up because getting you back is such hard work.

Whatdoesittake, I've heard that for someone with abusive tendencies counselling does not help. How did your DH end up doing this? Did you prompt him? Was it something you did together? I know I am clutching at straws probably, and have been told time and time again he won't change but you can only hope.

Stumblymonkey, thanks for your post. I almost wish I could show it to him, and others like it. It would be patronising of me to say so lovely of you to manage things in that way, because that's just 'normal'! But I do mean it, bearing in mind my situation.

If you were to get inside his head, AM, you'd probably see somebody with little empathy, who feels fully justified in behaving as he does - since he knows best (he thinks).

The lack of empathy and impaired conscience means that people like this respond slowly, and badly, to counselling. They never 'see', or consider themselves unreasonable. They're never wrong!

The most they tend to do is put on a good show for the counsellor, since most of their lives have been spent faking something for public show.

Mo, I had to get to a point where I was going to leave. I had started counseling on my own and became braver so was able to insist he got help or I would leave. He saw that the counseling was leading me in a certain direction and his choice was to follow or be left behind. My counsellor have me the name of another counsellor forhim and to his credit he really took it in board. His nature is to be prefect at everything and that included his therapy. We went through some really tough times but he had admitted his control and realised why he did it. He still lapses at times and that is so hard for me I immediately think he is being his old self. But there have been positives. He is so much better with our teenagers. So relaxed and easy with them compared to his previous highly rigid control. With me not so much. ... He still is trying to fix me alt and still makes me feel anxious at times. But as I get stronger it improves. I waver a lot and sometimes believe I would recover more quickly if I was alone but somehow I am still here. There must be a reason for that.
I hour you can convince him to get help but I think that separation while you both have therapy is a better way to go. Good luck. Feel free to pm me if you want more advice.

Trackrbird, I think DH is more likely to respond in the way you've described than whatdoesittake's. I just can't ever imagine him sitting there discussing his thoughts and feelings and recognising the effect his behaviour has had on me and the effect it could potentially have on our children. Bloody sad. It could be so simple to fix.

I am living a lie, I can't do this any more. I am just expressionless and vacant around him, only talk in short sentences if he asks me something but offer no more. He carries on as normal. What's the point?

Get your ducks in a row and end it with him is my best advice.

Also start to get angry, very angry at his treatment of you.

You can claim as a single parent whilst sharing a house, get your 20% CMS claims started and so on.

I know
He just popped out to get something and came back with a big block of halva (sweet). He knows I like it but it's difficult to find. What the hell's he playing at. Is this the only way he knows how to say 'sorry' or to manipulate further? I don't know how to react. I just looked at him and said oh and went back to what I was doing. Maybe he's getting jittery as to how I'll behave on Friday.