Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

from what I understand, OP doesn't know what salary, what is in the bank, & has no access to any money. Zero. The P dispenses the exact amount or she is condemned to using prepaid store card.

Lea, there are lots of reasons we couldn't just move in with my parents. I'm not sure how many people would be able to accommodate four people into their household all of sudden for example! But no, I mean our lives are here, our friends are here, we live walking distance from school, the kids are settled and why would I want to add yet another upheaval in their lives, as if their parents not getting on isn't enough. Anyway, I'd expect him to leave first, not me. It would be far easier for him to find a temporary solution than us.

I know roughly what his salary is, his favourite subject is money after all so even though I don't know the exact amount nor all the outgoings, if I sat down and calculated everything I know about, mortgage, bills, etc. I'd have a good idea of things. I just have always relied on him to do everything because it's his "thing" and he'd be better at than me anyway. Just evidently over-reliant.

After our argument about the money for the £7.50 present, I thought he might ease off a bit about the uniform money I'd told him I needed. So I just sent him an email telling him how much, asking him not to argue about it because I've worked it out, that's how much it costs and that's it. I said can we please stop arguing about money as it's ruining our family. I also added I wanted to get rid of the store cards as they don't work for me and I'd rather have a fixed amount and if we run out, then blame me, we'll just starve (probably a bit childish but I was just so angry even writing the email in the first place). I told him it was not normal to question every single expense and our money is family money etc and that his parents' handling of financial matters, which may be all he knows, is not normal and should not be copied as a model for our relationship.

I thought that might shut him up a bit. But I was wrong. He came home and asked me to break down the amount for the uniform stuff. It obviously escalated into a row and I kept asking him why he didn't trust me. He said if I wouldn't tell him, he'd come home early from work today and go himself rather than let me. I started crying and eventually I just told him because...I don't actually know why, I was exasperated by him. Can you imagine him telling his colleagues, oh by the way, I'm leaving early to get my kids' some clothes...oh, why can't your wife go? Because she didn't precisely outline the costs of every item to me. I kept asking him why he needed to know the details of each and every thing, as that's what I'm here for, to take care of stuff like that so he doesn't have to even think about it. Our conversation ended up with him questioning every thing, including increasing the amounts of certain things. Why do you only want one of those? Why don't you get another one? What do you need that for? Are you sure he needs another of those? Etc. I have never seen such pettiness in him ever, it's like he just wanted to prove he needs to be involved, because I can't make simple decisions about quantities of items of clothing for my own children, who I dress, look after and wash clothes for myself every single day.

Anyway after all of this, he transferred the money, more than I'd asked for originally. I ended up telling him I was scared of him, that he made me feel scared every time the subject of money comes up and ended up a total mess, crying and streaming like a fool. He never once offered any concern or came over to calm me down or give me a hug or apologise for being a dick.

Then today, he comes home and acts as if everything is normal. Because of course it is. Totally normal.

Mo, if you don't change something it will stay the same. You are the only one that can change the situation, and this issue is never going to go away.

Decide what you want your life to look like in a year, 3 years etc. Then start taking baby steps to get there.

That's such a sad post Mo. Your despair is palpable.

I'd love to get inside his head, I really would. I've completely avoided all eye contact with him tonight and only spoken if asked a question with a short reply. He will never apologise.

You won't change him. You have to change then. Start detaching emotionally if you can. He's using crazy making behaviour then he can blame you. Don't let him have this power over you.
Easier said than done. But at least you know when he's turning the tables. What a joyless prick.

It says so much for you, Mo, that you feel able to challenge him. It's clear, sadly, that he has no intention of changing. How long can you go on like this?

You should have let him go for the uniforms. A nonchalant ok would have thrown him. He has no right to not trust you. He's putting you on the back foot like most abusive men.
Think of tiny ways to empower yourself then you can think logically about your position if you're not ready to leave him yet.

Enoughalready, I know, I should have let him go, I'm such an idiot. I don't like playing games though.

God it sounds like a scary film. I don't think you have any choice but to end it.

When I was alone today with the kids, doing normal things, taking them out, making them lunch, playing in the garden, making them dinner, reading them stories, putting them to bed, it did feel normal and lovely, I forgot all about this shit going on and the time with my kids is so precious I don't want that to be altered, I really don't, I know you will all say but it will only get worse and it's better for them in the long run. But it's so hard to step out of this life we have spent years building. Fuck. When I read your reactions to the crap that's been happening and that I haven't told a single soul about I do think I must be nuts to continue.

You wouldn't be playing games. You would be refusing to take the bait of his nasty game playing. Again hard to do. I only got free when I detached. Otherwise I was becoming a crazy woman.

The pretense is getting to me. He rang me up earlier and told me some friends (actually his friend and his fiancée) had asked us if we wanted to go for dinner on Friday. I stupidly said OK because my first thought was what will they think if I don't go (they've invited us to their wedding soon) and I'd be doing it to put a face on for them. As soon as I put the phone down I was kicking myself. Stupid idiot. So now I'm thinking to tell him sorry I don't think it would be appropriate for us to join them under the circumstances. I don't know what to say. I don't want more arguments.

You know what I'd love to do? I'd love to expose him completely unawares, say at the dinner with the friends, and say you know what this one did, he wouldn't give me money for school uniforms until I'd told him the cost and quantity of each one and if I didn't tell him he wanted to go himself! The silly oaf.
I'd never have the balls to do that though.

I did that for years. Exams. Birthdays. Weddings. Holidays. Putting up with abuse with a front hoping things would change. Anyway eventually I said that's it. You've crossed the line and there's no relationship and things began to change and he never raged again. But it was too late.
I suppose it's about knowing your boundries and sticking to them. I obviously mustn't have had any.
Think about whether you can go through with the charade or not. I don't think you're ready to leave him yet so think of ways to empower yourself.
He's making both of you shove it under the carpet. Controlling buffoon.

I can see why that would be appealing, to watch him squirm.

But noooooo. Don't do it.

What would be your preferred scenario?

AngryMo it's fantastic to hear you finding your voice. I know it's early days but you are NOT stupid and I can hear the growl of a strong and powerful Mo starting to emerge!

(A bit of me wants you to say it BTW)

As an unmarried SAHM, you are financially vulnerable. He could pull the rug out from under you at any time. You need to protect yourself even if you are not ready to leave.

Well you're right that abuse is a nasty secret because we don't want anyone else to know. I couldn't handle the pressure and would drink too much wine.
Keep the moral high ground I say. Don't give him any weapons to get back at you with.

Annoyingly because it's been Christmas, we've had a lot of guests, visitors and people popping in, so every time we've had an argument, it's had to be quickly put to one side and then eventually never resumed. I've managed to not actually speak much to him during any of this but the fact he can stick on a jovial happy family face so quickly is quite nauseating.

Sorry, Enoughalready, I meant to say, when you say he never raged again, you mean your threat to leave actually worked? But glad to hear you were strong enough to get out. Playing charades is exhausting.

You do need to keep your cards close to your chest. Ranting in front of his friends would give him the opportunity to roll his eyes and do the whole 'I am a saint' act.
A lot of parents who go through the massive adjustment of earnings do struggle to readjust but they get their heads around it asap. Because it is the right thing to do.
Your partner seems to think he is supporting you and the DC. And that you should be grateful.
The ideal solution would be to look for a f/t job and take it on the quiet. And announce it as a done deal. He can dump the DC on his mum. She won't be able to do every day forever because her DH will need his wants met. Then father and son can have an entitlement fight.
Meanwhile the washing and ironing and housework will pile up. I bet he'd crack in a week. You could keep you and the DC clean.
But I suppose he's ground you down too far for that :(