Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

I feel so overwhelmed again. I'd like to think about all the replies and post again properly but I am feeling drained tonight. I've had a very emotionally draining day, totally unrelated to any of this stuff, but again, have experienced people displaying a kindness P would never be capable of in a million years. I came close to crying publicly (both alone and when in company) today but had to hold back the tears so think that's why I feel a need to release them!
I'll be back...

Rabbit you make your point very well and very succinctly btw...

You take care, no need to update if you not feeling up just wave a hand so we know your around and well.

sends the most expensive tissues can find in waitrose

Thanks Akire.
Just me being silly, now you've mentioned that...how I'd love to fill the house with waitrose branded stuff for when he graces us with his presence, just to confuse him. I might ask a friend to use my card and give me the cash, because he can't know he's won. Two fingers up.

Oh yes we can all send you empty shopping bags and boxes that you can leave around the house. Tell him oh yes that part time restaurant job paid much better than expected! Than buy 50 tins of value beans and fill every food cupboard. Hehe

Yes, I'd get a real kick out of that. Every supermarket shopping bag and brand under the sun EXCEPT the one I'm allowed to shop in. No trace of it.

Allowed. Look at that word: allowed. He's not your dad.

Mo, it makes me so sad and angry for you every time you use the word "allowed". Stay strong.

We could do with some boxes of really expensive stuff. It truly would be hilarious.

Don't worry! I don't use the word allowed because I am brainwashed. I just use it with a dollop of sarcasm, I promise

You use it bcs it's TRUE!

Ie he controls your every (financial) move, therefore controls YOU.

And he acts like he's your dad!

Hi Mo
Just a quick question. What would happen if a friend (in the know) took you shopping (as you have no transport) and paid for it. At the same time as they did their shopping. And swopped receipts? So you could say look how much they spend on their family. Would he panic about them knowing you couldn't afford it? Could said friend then say something about it being not enough? And embarrass him?

Crying is OK Mo. It is part of finally breaking out of the trance.
When is CAB meeting ? hopefully they will point you in the direction of your housing people. I think your problem will be that you own half a house. Thus they will say technically you have a lump of money. so you will either need somewhere else until the house is sold or as he is living abroad, now seems like a good time to get it valued (& on the market), so that you can live there without him until it's sold, then you can buy something else.
The chances of P moving out & continuing to pay the mortgage are slim.
but you need to go down the road of the housing dept, & please borrow money for a solicitor. You need to get things clear in your mind before P returns, & stirs up all the sludge again.
No need for long explications here. But we are here backing you.

Wally...he'd have an argument for everything. It would be very hard to have a like for like comparison - three kids and one adult. Even if I went with a friend doing a shop for two adults and two children, he'd say well obviously a small child doesn't need as much as a grown adult. Then he'd say well they both work so they can buy whatever they like (regardless of salaries, which he wouldn't know anyway, but he earns much more than your average UK salary).
I can almost predict every word of his usual BS.
I could say someone offered to run me to the nearest supermarket but i had to decline because I'm not allowed to shop there. That might rattle him.

Btw he's off on his trip after work today. And I've told him no word about the car yet so will need to do an online shop, which prepaid card can't be used for.

He'd better not ask his mum to take me shopping but it's the kind of thing he'd do - delegate as much as he can to his poor mum. She's not offered anyway, and didn't offer her car for my other journey I mentioned (nor did her husband) even though it was an emergency situation with the car and she knows my trip is important.

So although she has been helpful in other ways and I'm not knocking her, because I think she has her own struggles with her own controlling husband (yes, many similarities, someone asked if his dad was the same and I didn't want to go into it, but sadly yes) and after many years of similar treatment by her selfish husband, I think somehow her generosity is stunted by him.
She is naturally kind and giving, although I failed to see this before because of her H and others who don't know the dynamic of their relationship wouldn't believe it.

Whenever they do me a 'favour' it's often met with moans and groans and how busy their lives are (they are retired), I feel in the way when I go there and I often wish I hadn't bothered asking in the first place. If they can't help, I'd rather they just said no sorry rather than say yes and then complain. It's always been that way. By the way I'm not saying just because you're retired you have to drop everything for your grandchildren, not at all.

They help with other things though (her more than him) so I am grateful even though he is pulling the strings.

Whereas my parents...oh my god, they would give up everything to help and would tell me to stop being so silly if I tried to thank them. They are not here though.

I thought that would be the case Mo....as the saying goes the Apple never falls far from the tree.

I agree with PP as soon as things kick off, he will be very reluctant to pay for anything....remember in his warped mind what he earns is his. Hence why he is fine to go on a trip, hasn't asked when your car will be mended and is not concerned that you have no money and may not be able to feed his children.

Although, you know that this isn't right, he has conditioned you into thinking he maybe right to excert his control over you.

I know that you have a CAB appointment next week but also call WAid.

They may be able to point you in the right direction re:solicitors and are also more knowledgable of this type of abuse.

they both work so they can buy whatever they like

This is the crux of it. His meanness is nothing to do with your ability to manage money, it's to punish you for not earning it. And this is why you can never 'win' the argument, because you are approaching the question from opposing philosophies. He only values paid work and almost certainly believes that if it's not paid, it's not work. It's really that simple.

This is just so crazy.

So he believes that his children and partner should eat as little as possible? As cheaply as possible? What kind of parent thinks like that? While eyeing sports cars..

Phoenix, I know you've mentioned WA several times - I have said upthread that I have called them. Twice now. First time wasn't that helpful, except telling me to call CAB, which I have done. Second time they gave me a number for a local women's refuge, not because I'm going to end up there necessarily, but more for advice and support right now. Haven't done that but yet cos been too busy. But getting there.

Sorry, I hadn't realised that you had and I'm sorry to hear that hadn't been more helpful.

You are doing so well .

I thanked my MiL for being there, especially at times like this (alone, broken down car, other issues) and she said a very weird thing - that she knows what it's like to be alone with small children and 'no money'.

In her case, I know for a fact her H used to cover the mortgage and bills but provided nothing for housekeeping, so she had to scrimp and save and do little jobs whilst also managing everything else, alone, because in those days, so she tells me, her H was one of those men who came home from work and wanted the children out of sight and everything doing for them. Yep, a bit like P when I quit my job (he was more helpful when I worked too).

But I do find it weird she said 'no money' - she obviously thinks that because she may think if I don't have a job, then there is no money, as in her case. She must think that it is normal.

But how does she know I have no money and state it so matter of fact? I've never ever mentioned money worries to her or even hinted. We've never talked about my situation because I can't get a word in edge ways anyway. She knows her son earns a lot of money, knows we jointly bought the house, knows I've always worked until now - so how does she 'know'? I wonder if her son has mentioned something or if it's simply a scary assumption based on her own experience.

I find it hard to believe though at her age with the number of people she's known over the years that she can't have figured out that other families don't work like that. If she doesn't know that she herself has been suffering abuse all these years, that is a frightening thought.

Hi Mo, I would guess your MIL was also conditioned to think it is normal, unless there really was very little money around when her children were small. I am not sure if your P has siblings? I just wondered what any sisters situation was not my business of course but wondered if the whole family is like this.
Has he been in touch at all?
I have heard stories from when I was very young about the women staying home with small kids and being short of cash, but on the whole I think cash was pretty short in itself so stingy housekeeping was due to necessity rather than meanness often, although many a man had to have his couple if pints after work, that seemed to have been non negotiable. Times have changed.

how does she know I have no money and state it so matter of fact?

I assume you realised your DP had spoken to her about the situation of you 'not working', and hence why he has mentioned several times that MIL is happy to babysit for you so you can do a shift in the pub a few nights a week. Presumably someone (maybe her MIL?) must have done this for her when she was a young mum. I don't think he is just assuming she will cover for you, I think he has discussed this with her - she may even have offered it as the solution, given how closely your financial life now mirrors hers.

Is it possible that he asked his parents dad for advice re:your budget?

"Oo dad, Mo intends to be a SAHM what might be a suitable food/housekeeping budget?"

In regards to your MIL, her husband probably did keep hold of the purse strings, it might be because like grumpy has suggested or the attitude "I work and it's my money".

Hard really to say.