Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

I agree with Rookie - he has handed you this on a plate and I have never seen a more deserving case for delivering justice. Not revenge or punishment, simply a just outcome for his hideous behaviour.

No no no Kitty, maybe I explained it badly. He has topped up the card as normal for 150 which is meant to last two weeks but it takes a few days to credit, so he must have timed it wrongly and where he said it would be available today, it won't be available till tomorrow. So to cover that as I told him it's an emergency and I needed money TODAY since we were left short over the weekend (and he refused to add funds before pay day) he's added the 75 to my account directly rather than the card. So I have the usual money, except I won't touch the prepaid card till next Monday, which should last two weeks.
It's not as extreme as what you initially thought. Plus my top up money. Still not luxurious living, but as per his original plan.

Apologies if already said but are all three DC at school?
Surely the youngest is at home. What about middle one?

Only in that school dinners may only be one DC 5 days a week.

I have two DC. I cook from scratch so am frugal. And I shop at Ocado because I like the convenience and quality of food.

So there's three of us. And I spend £80-£100 a week easily on food. Which includes pack lunch for one DC and the other gets free meals in Ks1 still.

Laundry and cleaning in that bill too. Always two or three bottles of wine in there too. And light bulbs, bin liners etc last week too.

If I took all my household stuff away, all the kids clubs, all my car bills and consider what is left....

Of course I could manage on £200 a
Month. But I also parent alone. And it's hard work. Really hard work and I have to care for myself else I'm not the best mother I can be.

I get a massage once a month, I'm having counselling weekly to get over my Passive aggressive ex, I spend £40 a month on my sporting hobby.
I eat out once a month at least WITH children and also without DC with my friends.

Petrol is £60 a month and I don't use my car for commuting. So that's just fuel for the kids to do stuff.

Birthday presents and parties. school always want money, dress up days etc.
Children losing teeth needs money. Pocket money. Falling over needs plasters. If they are ill then the heating has to stay on all day. DD wears glasses which cost £120 twice a year (thinner lenses). DC cost a lot and it comes from all sorts of places.

Flexibility is required. The point is, you don't live on the breadline. Your aspirations are middle class and your P salary can afford it.

I put school clothes and shoes in an online shopping basket and email it the DC father to pay for and delivery to me.
Could you start doing this? Regardless of whether you stay together it would set the right tone.

Ah okay Mo - I get ya. I still think the way to deal with is the same.

I'm hoping that when you 'say' things they are 'said' in print ie email, not verbally? Please get as much in print as possible: write (obliquely! Don't want him smelling a rat!) in an email what you have agreed. Get in as much detail as possible.

Well done girl, you're doing good

Mine is much the same, it's ok now because I am the one in full time work while he works part-time. He gambles a big chunk of his pay I think. When I was at home with our daughter he gave me minimal 'house-keeping' money, I needed to ask for extra for doctors visits etc and he always complained about it, but was so proud of always having money to shout a mate a beer and always had money for gambling. I'll never ever lose the resentment for it.

I don't think it's normal, or ok. Honestly, if you have the strength and support to leave, you'll probably be happier for it.

Thing is op doesn't need any evidence for anything - they are not married!!!

The house split is already legally sorted out through the deeds/tenants things she can't apply for spousal maintenance, there aren't any marital assets to split.

It's just a case of op deciding to tell him it's over and forcing the sale of the house etc. If he is employed as working in the UK then she can claim via CMS if he isn't then we know he's such a selfish arrogant abusive git he may well not pay anything towards the financial costs of the DC.

Op is well aware that he will never be kind or generous she has more than enough evidence of that...

In the orginal post by the Mo she says DH....

Yes but if you RTFT it turns out they are not...

Oh ok random thanks

Random you are right, I also keep forgetting that point, mind you, still a good idea for Mo to keep those emails in case she starts to waver and needs to remind herself what he is like.
Hope you are ok today Mo

Does he work on a UK contract Mo ? I'm assuming if he pays UK tax that this is so.

Thing is op doesn't need any evidence for anything - they are not married!!!

I had assumed the point was that if the OP documents abuse firstly it might be useful in getting the P out of the house at some point and secondly it might be useable in the context of the new anti-abuse laws.

There's also the possible future benefit that if the OP starts to have any doubts she can look at a record of what things were really like at the time.

I had assumed the point was that if the OP documents abuse firstly it might be useful in getting the P out of the house at some point and secondly it might be useable in the context of the new anti-abuse laws

Me too, surely the new laws against emotional abuse don't only apply to married couples?

Probably won't have time to respond to properly now but funny how you are mentioning referring to previous emails, even if not used for my case, should things go that way, but for me, and to remind myself how he has behaved and treated me in the past.
That's exactly what I was doing last night. I had a sudden surge of panic that I was just exaggerating everything. I know why I think that way though - will explain more later - but I started digging out old email trails, found a few things that made me gasp but also need to analyse things more in depth.
I know for certain that his behaviour NOW is abusive, but my concern is previously...we DID have financial difficulties (not anyone's fault, just bad luck) and if I pursued the financial abuse part, his defence would probably be but we had to be extra careful, I was careful with money to protect you, to keep things afloat, I did it for the family.
That is my worry, although not condoning his behaviour, he might just have a very justifiable explanation for it and I can't stop thinking about it.
Back later.

Really? A justification for why his children can't do after school activities? Why you can spend disproportionately more on food when he's there than when he's not? What exactly does that have to do with any poor financial management on your part?

He is punishing you, it's that simple. And punishing his children. If you were bad with money, absolutely a budget is the way to go, a pre-paid card might even help if you had a tendency to overspend regardless of how much was budgeted for a particular category.

Was his behaviour on a sliding scale from possibly justified to definitely not justified? Yes, but most abuse works that way.

You need to stop thinking that the goal here is to present a logical and well-formed enough argument that you can convince him he is wrong. The goal is also not to show how you can survive without running to him for money. He is setting you up to fail.

You know that the way he is treating you like a poorly performing employee is wrong, disrespectful and unacceptable. He will never agree. It doesn't matter. You don't need his permission to think what you think, or to act to end the marriage if that's what you want to do.

Sorry you are having bit of a wobble Mo. But you don't have to understand or justify his behaviour , it is abuse. Yes there may be reasons why it happens but dosnt make it right.

Even if you were a total flake with money and just spent it all, to the extent he controls it like he does the power is do out of balance its never going equal a loving partnership. Plus Dam it if he's allowed spent 100s on wine food and going out then you should have the same.

The fact he's giving you less than you would get on benefits and treats the rest as income for himself shows how little he regards you and the children.

There might possibly be a justifiable explanation of why he started being like this. Continuing it is a whole different thing though.

The other day I slipped slightly and in finding my footing I planted a high heel hard on DH's foot yes drink had been taken When he said "Ow! You are hurting my foot!" I immediately apologised and took my weight off his foot. Perfectly normal.

Your DPs behaviour is the equivalent of me holding my foot there, increasing the pressure and giving him a hard time for complaining.

Mo you cannot persuade him that what he is doing is wrong.

You may have been in financial difficulty, but can I ask Why are you implying that you were the cause and that this justifies in some way his behaviour?

IMO, you are partners and have a family. The money you have is family money.....it doesn't matter who did, what, when, why.

At the end of the day if you said hey, you are financially abusive etc he would only reply because this in his mind is his warped truth no, I'm not I'm looking out for the family.

You need to think, can you put up with a life time of this? And more importantly will you allow your children to be treated this way?.

OK..... please explain how he justifies plans to pay for a sports car/expensive wine that you may not partake of, social breaks while overseas, meals with friends & a general "look at me, I'm flush, let me get the drinks" .....attitude
When he allowing you no money to comfortably feed his children ?

Plus, please read & understand, even putting emotional & financial abuse aside. If you are UNHAPPY, you are entitled to leave.
I am unhappy, this isn't a partnership, It no longer works for me. Goodbye
Your reasons are your own, He will want explications, he will rant, he will threaten, he will make promises, but at the end, he is who he is/has become.
He has no intention of changing. You are not happy. You are allowed to choose to be single.
QED

No, they don't. Keep as much evidence as you can find. Make notes of everything.

wrong thread!^^^

How does the sports car benefit the family? Will you be using it to take the children to school?
I suppose he could say the wine's an investment, but you don't buy investments until you've got all the basics covered, and then you discuss the best investments with your spouse.

If there were financial problems in the past all the more reason why you both need to work together to makes decisions regarding budgets, priorities, sharing savings and so on...

Who says he is making the correct decisions when you are not party to what money their even is, for all you know he's investing it all in the stock market or the horses...

Even if it is justified, he hasn't TOLD you. He keeps financial matters a secret from you and that justifies what you feel and are doing.

People with genuine financial difficulties don't buy sports cars and expensive wines. Well, some do, but nobody would class them as responsible with money. Quite the opposite.