Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

Angrymo You have nothing to be embarrassed about. Your H is the one who should be ashamed at working away for months on end and deliberately keeping his own family so short of money that you don't have enough to put dinner on the table for the next week. And you know what, the vast majority of people, including most men, would also think he's a disgrace.

What kind of fucked up individual demands advance notice and detailed explanations of expenditure for his own family.

You are doing really well and you should be proud of yourself for refusing to be cowed by him. Good luck tomorrow and be strong.

I really want to expose him to his friends too (in time, not right now, don't worry). A friend of his is having a party this week and told me I'd be welcome to come with the kids even without him. Ordinarily, I would go, but I can't face being around 'his' people and putting on a face. So instead I have just been lying low and have not been in touch, which I'm not proud of. If they ask me why I didn't go, I am incredibly tempted to say sorry, I didn't have enough petrol in the car and couldn't afford to top up. Cue perplexed looks and WTF. I would only be telling the god honest truth.

Yes you should definitely say that!!! Then what would DH say? He won't want to be embarrassed and say he's skint but also won't want to say "I don't provide enough money for my family" ooooh what a predicament he will be in

Sorry P not DH!!

Maybe the hosts themselves won't actually ask me, but there's a good chance a mutual friend who was there will ask. I would only be stating a fact, so if the situation arises, I can't see why not actually. It's not aggressive, or suggestive of anything I'm planning to do. Just an innocent never mind.

You could always ask him for the extra money to top up car earlier. What would happen if you hinted that oh I'm going have to turn down X invite as got no petrol. Would he just blame you for using up all petrol or would he care about his face?

No because then I would have to go. And I genuinely can't face these people, with this going on. Anyway P knows about this thing because he asked me (pre silence) if I was going to go.

Oh Mo I am so angry on your behalf. He is an arse of the highest order. Continue on your path of getting your ducks in a row then declare open season on him.

What are some of the wines he's got stashed away?? We have some fab wines put away in our cellar fridge and absolutely nothing in there is off limits to either of us. We once sat on the floor and drank a bottle of Grande Annee whilst eating toffee pops - it was one of my favourite birthday meals

And yes, if people ask why you didn't go to the do tell them the truth.

Stinking hot and humid over here today, I'm heading outdoors to sit in the shade with a nice glass of chardonnay; stay your course Mo, I'll send you girlpower vibes while I sip.

I've had a crap night's sleep. DS has been poorly too - at one point I thought I might have to take him to A&E (problem he's had before) but luckily the meds I gave him calmed him down and he seems to be a bit better, thank god.

Anyhow I have also been anxious about getting a reply from P. In the end I did send a reply to that email last night. I wasn't going to but I thought hang on a minute, this is serious now, we don't actually have enough money until payday so I'll have to write a very calm and non-attacking email. I explained why I thought I went overdrawn (using his way of thinking) and a few bits I had to buy for the children that I described as 'one-off purchases' so he would surely agree that they were not regular monthly spends. I don't know how exactly he decides what his £200 covers and does not - only he knows and it's only if I explain what purchases were made in detail that he can decide.

Anyway thankfully this strategy worked and he's agreed to putting some money in pre-payday to cover those additional things, so I am no longer overdrawn and have a bit extra till the rest comes.
He seems to respond better when I just comply and go along with his 'full details for his consideration' although I failed to give the advance notice this time that he requested.

I've decided to start doing a couple of school meals a week for my eldest rather than just packed lunch, so I explained that I've paid for them too. I didn't know if he would say well it's the equivalent to what you would be paying for a packed lunch so I'm not giving you any extra for that (wouldn't have been surprised if he reduced the £75 prepaid amount and added it to the monthly amount, if you see what I mean, anyway, still the same). But somehow, in his logic, he's agreed to increase the monthly amount to include it. Totally unpredictable.

God what a waste of time, energy and stress for me, just to organise all this. I feel so jittery and had that awful feeling of dread you get when you are expecting an unpleasant response, can see the email in your inbox but don't want to open it.

I mentioned, in the most non-provocative way possible, that he must forget he can go out for a drink whenever he wants but I can't and he can't say that's fair. His response? 'One evening's work will give me more than enough to fund going out with friends once a week' and that he's checked with his parents and they would be happy to help...apparently. Wonder what they thought about that.

Ok, so in practice, working one evening a week. Working a shift in a restaurant means about 6pm-midnight, roughly. His parents never come to our place when babysitting (long story), so any time they've had the kids, we always have to take them up to theirs. So straight away it can't be a week day, so that leaves me with Friday and Saturday night, and would also mean they'd have to sleep over, because I'm not going to pick three sleeping children up after midnight (incidentally they don't even have bedrooms for them, so sleeping on sofas/mattress on floor in living room type arrangement). Also, those are the only days available I would have for a drink out with a friend anyway, so let's say I work Friday, leave them with the GPs, pick them up Saturday morning, then drop them off again on Saturday night so I can go out...?
None of it makes sense. I am not going to work and go through all that just so I can go out and have a bloody drink. And obviously he knows this. So I won't work and I won't go out.

Sorry for grammar errors/badly worded bits.

You're still buying into his bullshit. I'm glad you got some extra cash but you must see that, long term, this is no way to live. Use his absence to gather your resources. Will your parents fund the appointment of a solicitor?

Well, I'm not so sure. I think I'd call his bluff. he really won't want you working in the pub, you'll meet people & men will flirt with you !
remember this is essentially about controlling you, so that you remain his "controlled possession".
Maybe you should do it.....How much would you have to pay a baby sitter? More than you earn & tips ? ? He will deduct the petrol money anyway, because this is all about you. so you wouldn't have to drive & drop off, nor call in help from MIL & would show him that you can actually be independent.
then on Saturday get the girls round to your place for catching up & drink his wine.

You must claim child benefit. It will be extra money for you and will count towards your pension.
If he's not back for a few months - just don't tell him.
Is there anything in the house that you can sell eBay gumtree or carboot like games outgrown clothes etc. What about the expensive wine could you sell it and tell him you drunk it?
Open a saving account and put extras like your CB and money from selling things, for legal fees or just a cash cushion only you know about say for paying advance fees on a childminder.
He might have gone paperless on his bank statements but he might get marketing or other letters so just scour the post for anything which might suggest he has an account with them.
Also if he's out of the country can you set up a claim for tax credits as if you have already separated ?

Could you look for a daytime p/t school hours job and pay the childcare from tax credits? Or is there anything you can do from home?
The suggestion of an evening job is just totally unworkable - and he probably knows it.

I don't think I have anything to prove to him. I have had a job for our entire relationship bar the last two years. There is nothing wrong with working in a restaurant but I would sooner do freelance work from home that I am qualified for rather than do a job I did when I was twenty - and if I can get some freelance stuff sorted I certainly wouldn't tell him. I wouldn't want him to know I was earning and he would have no idea how much. With the restaurant thing he'd have a good idea.

I am so angry and shaking, he's just skyped the children and just to hear his 'put on' talk to the children's voice made me feel sick. I only overheard bits of the conversation but I hear he's planning a couple of short social trips (which I knew about already anyway) but to hear him discussing them in light of what's going on now is just...I do feel sick.

The sooner you officially separate the better.

Please call women's aid at least they could advise you.

All I think you need to claim child benefit etc.

This is all about control. What is his...is his.

May I ask, is his father like this also.....?

He's sounds mental tbh.

Was he like this when you were earning ? I'd be starting a claim now as a single person and getting a shit hot lawyer..

Sweetie - you need to tell him it is over, put a claim in for benefits and end this asap. Otherwise you are going to tumble back into the rabbit hole.

Then you have a few months to sort out where to live, maintenance and if he time is right, a new job.

It's awful to read about you playing along with his abuse. I am not judging you and I know you are worried and it's the path of least resistance. He's going to defend his abuse by saying you and he both agreed to this system because you are hopeless with money. Your instinct to start to just tell the truth is a good one. No wonder you were so livid when he skyped. I would stop encouraging contact and crack on with the important task of getting rid of this disgusting piece of dogshit. I HATE that bastard. Lord knows how you must feel towards him - apart from terrified of him.

Also, as a tiny aside, change the language you use when discussing this. Don't say " I went overdrawn because I spent x, y, and z on..." but " the account is low because there are insufficient funds deposited and our children need ... food. "

^^ Clam is right.

And do think more about being open with mutual friends. Look, to a greater extent than a few weeks ago (great progress, BTW! ), you're less afraid of his "anger". So don't worry too much about things getting back to him. As was predicted earlier, you're hearing people say "you know, I had a feeling ..., but didn't want to say". And the more people you tell, the more you're going to hear from even among his/mutual friends that this is just not right.

After all, few people are going to come right out with, "you know, your dp is an abusive arse," unprompted, are they? Even if they've been thinking it for years.

Also, I hate this language of him "giving" you money for the children. He can say it's "his" money all he likes, but it really isn't. It's "family money" and your contribution is running the home and caring for the kids which, if it was outsourced to anyone other than his mum (and does he REALLY think that's an acceptable solution?!) would cost thousands and thousands over a year. You are enabling him to work, even more so now he's abroad. You're working 24/7.

Definitely do what clam says about the way you phrase things. That's quite an important, symbolic step, makes him more responsible.

Do sort out benefits, and call WA - they will support you in rl which you do badly need.

I wouldn't bother telling him you're separating yet. I would keep schtum about that until you've got all your ducks in a row and are ready to either keep him out of the house (occupation order and non-molestation order) or are on the point of moving out yourself. I wouldn't put it past him to jump on a plane and run home if he gets a sniff of your intentions beforehand. You don't want him doing that!

Use this 6 month period to get yourself ready. Take advantage of his absence.

Mo why haven't you rang up and started claiming Child Benefit yet? He doesn't need to know until he fills in his tax return and as you will have presumably told him it's over by then he won't even have to pay the tax on it!!!

That is £48 per week in an account you can access... it really should be your priority to claim it - I think you can start the claim on line these days?