Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

I've got to the stage where I feel like I'm bursting to confide in my closest friends now, now that I've set the ball rolling. A week ago I was too ashamed to even admit it to myself, but now one, two, three close friends know and I've hinted at it to a couple more. I am wary that these are my friends so will automatically back me up and only see my POV and not his. This doesn't help with the seeds of doubt that are still lurking, and which will come into play when I finally do have to interact with him.
I've been calm today because he's not here and even felt normal for a while. I know all it will take is a snide remark or even forced nonchalance from him to get me riled up all over again and I'm dreading that feeling.

I don't think anything I rehearse can really make a difference though - I could make a speech worthy of winning an Oscar, but to him it will just go unnoticed or ignored.

I'm not even tempted to cave right now. If there's a chance my failure to engage is annoying him even just a little bit, then that gives me a little bit of sick pleasure.

Read the book! It'll break the spell that has you all wrought up with him - you'll see him for what he is: a worm.

Ok springy! I'll get on to it. Thank you.

'I would be using this time to look for bank statements, savings etc. to see exactly what kind of financial situation he is in. Make copies of them too.'

This ^.

Mo you have made such a lot of headway in such a short time. Proud of you!

Have only just picked up this thread and apols for not having read all the posts. I am a mum and a gran and am supporting my stepdaughter in a situation not unlike your own. Her children are both under 5 and she us not in a position to work again yet although she will when she can. She left him taking the children and their clothes and a few toys and lived with us for 3 months in our small house and used that time to gain back her confidence and get some sleep. She is now in a rented house living on very little and supported by us but she is happier than she has ever been with the b she married. It took her a while to believe that she was the victim of domestic abuse but is no victim now. The first step was going to her local domestic violence centre and speaking to people who understood exactly what she was going through. I also spoke at length on the phone to a member of staff at this centre who helped me understand. I still feel guilty about not seeing him for what he is sooner as in public and with friends etc he is totally charming. He tried to isolate us from her too and we lived too far away to visit other than by agreeing dates.

No one has the right to control your life in this way and I agree with others about this effect of this on your children. There are so many points of similarity between your case and my step daughter's. IMHO you should think hard about leaving and make your plans. Keep them secret too for these types of men will use every resource in their power to thwart you. You are strong and you can do it. GOOD LUCK.

Silence & detachment is good, he can't draw you in, put you down or wind you up, if you ignore him, or look with indifference & reply "whatever".
You can be a 'spectator'. also you can do absolute minimum for him.
he can put his own clothes to wash/iron, his own meals.
after all if "minimal" is his contribution, so can yours be.

Cerasus, I'm sad to read you're feeling guilty for not seeing your DD's ex for what he really is, please don't be. That rings bells for me, as P puts on a sickeningly convincing display of normality and joviality whenever we are with other people. I'm not surprised people can't see behind it and it has shocked so far the few people I have told in real life.

The detachment I felt the other night was a bit of a revelation, but I feel myself weakening now - not that I'm going to crack and confront him, but I feel nervous, jittery and tearful again. I can't keep up the stonewall for long, and I'm afraid of crumbling again in front of him. I don't know if I can keep playing this game. I can't stand being anywhere and having to pretend. I just want things to be honest and truthful and being with him right now is none of that.

Take deep breaths. In through your nose counting to 3 and out through your mouth counting to 5. Do it 3 times at least. Do it when you're feeling jittery, feeling tearful, tired, panic, fear etc. Do it lots!

Learning to step back and detach is a skill. It's not a skill he wants you to learn. You will detach. And you will get sucked back in. Eventually you will be detached most or all of the time. You are on your way x

You have done so well and you have heard the views of 100s of people on the scale of normal and yours certainly isn't close. So good tell your closet friend get some real life support, it's not that no one can see his side it's just so blimey obvious it's unfair and one sided. He gets all benefits you do half (if not more work) can't even spend a £10 on yourself, ever!

Just try imagine future where you explain to your kids what happens when you get married. Yes one of stays home and dies everything the person who earns the money gets to keep it all, make all the desciond and spend on whatever teats they like. See how well that would go down! Keep going you are doing so so well

Mo you are already pretending - you are pretending you are alright with his financial control, and walking on eggshells and being someone you are not in order not to upset him. But now instead of pretending according to his rules and what he wants, you are pretending on your own terms. That's all.

The only way to live honestly as yourself is either for him to stop all this control altogether (which is, unfortunately, unlikely) or for you to be away from him. But you can use that as a motivator - this pretending now is just a means to an end, it's not how your life will always be.

... P puts on a sickeningly convincing display of normality and joviality whenever we are with other people. I'm not surprised people can't see behind it and it has shocked so far the few people I have told in real life.

You might be surprised, but I figure more people will have seen hints of it than you think (or their first reactions might show).

Bear in mind also, that a lot if people won't talk smack about an abuser to the abuser until they know - know that you're leaving him and mean it [this time]. (Not saying you wouldn't or are insincere, etc, of course, but there's a statistic about how it takes an average of xx tries to leave before succeeding...).

I think, once you have definitively left him, stories and "you know, i had a feeling..."s will start coming out.

But even if not a one ever does, you're doing the right thing, you know that, yeah?

...to the abusee, I meant. #naughtyphone

I meant it when I said he is a worm. The mistake you're making, which gets you all wrought up and frightened, is you take him seriously. You probably think that underneath all that horrible behaviour is a real person with feelings and fears like the rest of us. This is where you're wrong: there is nothing underneath. What you see is what he is - he manipulates and controls bcs that is who he is. There are no hidden depths.

On one hand that is shocking and takes getting used to - but on the other hand it is tremendously freeing. You realise you've been trying to forge a relationship with a phantom, twisting yourself inside out to get purchase. But there really is nothing there to get hold of and it's a waste of your vibrancy, humanity, to even try - and it is deeply painful to try. He doesn't come up with the goods bcs he doesn't have them. The beginning and end of him is a facade.

I hope you've had the chance to read some of the suggested literature bcs imo (and ime) it breaks the spell in record time.

Hold on. This is the most painful (excruciating) time - it gets better after this (exponentially!). Hold on and get through it, it won't last forever. Keep posting, we're here for you - so many of us have been through it and come out the other side.

I agree emotionally detaching from someone I had loved so much for so many years was utterly excruciating and I cried every day for many many many months. It was only after I'd got to that point I was able to call time on the marriage.

Hey Mo, wondering how you are doing. However things are, will you come back and update?

I imagine Twunt is back for the weekend and OP is keeping off the computer. Hope she's safe.

Yes, I remember the dread of weekends. Hope so too.

Whatever's happening Mo, it's okay to come back here.

Sorry for going awol for a bit. I'm still here and here is my update.

P is actually away for work for much longer than first suggested. This is a good thing in that I will have some breathing space, and I hope some time alone for him may be beneficial. So I haven't seen him for just over a week (even though it seems a lot longer). He's communicated once in that time with the children, which I set up for them, but I didn't take part. He was asking DS if I was there but I just kept silent because by that point I was feeling physically sick at the thought of speaking to him, and I don't know if this was strategic by him, but he had a friend in the background, so if we had spoken, it would have been a very forced and fake conversation. Another reason I couldn't stomach it.

I haven't sent a single email, text or any other form of instant message to him at all. The only time we've been in contact was to set up the call with the kids and also he sent me an email to ask me something boring and house-related to which I replied with a cold one liner, simply answering the question, no hi, how are you etc.

So in other words, he is still refusing to acknowledge the initial email I sent which he is obviously never going to reply to. Answering my questions to black and white questions about finances (how much is the budget for x, what are you planning to spend on y, how much are you setting aside for z etc.), are obviously things he clearly doesn't want to divulge to me. Never mind the other stuff, i.e. me telling him I don't want the prepaid shopping card because it's impractical for me, or that I need money for other things he hadn't included in his rigid budget. He does not want to address those either. So blanking me is his way of reinforcing that.

How long can this silence go on for, I wonder? The whole time he's away?

So in the meantime at least I have time to consider what I want to say to him, and to phrase things in such a way that he's not going to get instantly pissed off and refuse even to read the damn email. I need to be clever about what I say and how I say it, if I want to achieve anything. There's no point in me letting rip in an email (however tempting that is) as I've learnt from confronting him before, that emotions don't get me anywhere and just show my vulnerable side. I need to strike in a calm, civil way and try not to incite any anger, or at least minimise it.

If this doesn't work, then I will issue my ultimatum. Or you put your children first, provide for them adequately, allow me access to all finances, or you will end up losing your family, your home, everything you pride yourself in and will end up alone, paying child maintenance and only seeing your children once a week.

So that's my plan, but I have no idea how to execute it. I have no idea how to compose the perfectly worded email, but I'm going to try. Any ideas or drafts welcome.

One of the reasons I suddenly feel and maybe sound calmer is because I finally plucked up the courage to tell my parents, and they have been fully supportive. They were not completely shocked - as others I think pointed out - and had already picked up on certain behaviours or witnessed things, but had no idea he was forcing us to live under such strict control. They weren't outraged though, which to be honest I'm not completely surprised by, as it's sort of how I imagined them to react, but they reinforced the fact that a family is a family who should share everything, regardless who earns the money, which is the way I was brought up. They recognise though that P was not brought up that way, but it is not an excuse to behave the way he is. My dad actually said he would 'have a word', in an indirect way, with him next time he sees him....but at the back of my mind I was thinking, if there is a next time...

But: the good news is, I am ready to take the next step.

It is admirable that you are giving him the chance to be reasonable but his control issues run very deep. If he realises he can't control you with money will he simply switch to other methods.
I think your ultimatum need to include him getting therapy in his own. Perhaps you should consider it too. My h had similar issues and the only real change happened with therapy. Lots of it and an admission from him that there was something wrong with him. Will your husband be willING to accept that?

First off, well done, you have moved along miles from your first post. I agree that the more time apart is good, the clearer your thoughts will become.
Very telling that there is silence from him..... His mind will however be working at top speed wondering "what the fuck ?"
beware also for feeble attempts at snide "found yourself a boyfriend have you?"
Another classic tactic.
so in reply to your statement to him. what you say above would seem perfect.
Or you put your children first, provide for them adequately, allow me access to all finances, or you will end up losing your family, your home, everything you pride yourself in and will end up alone, paying child maintenance and only seeing your children once a week.

I don't know about the idea of therapy. Probably first off because he would actually laugh, and I can hear him laughing in a mocking, snidy way right now, and it would never in a million years be something he would consider or take seriously if suggested. The very idea that there is something wrong with him...totally laughable in his view. For him, anyone who needs counselling or therapy, is weak.