Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

I am glad you recognised exactly what was happening up there ^ Mo.

It's not a very big responsibility Lea if you don't bother to support the four dependents.

I also lived in hope for years Mo. Mine wasn't primarily financial abuse but emotional. I probably spent the best part of 20 years thinking 'I would be so happy if only he would just admit that he is has all these problems and get some help'. But the way hope gets stripped away is horribly corrosive and even now I've left him he still definitely doesn't have any problems. He's not an addict, he's not emotionally abusive. He just has a mad ex.

His tactics may be reprehensible and controlling; I'm not convinced of abusive. But the underlying agenda to control costs, remain debt-free and leverage the earning power of both spouses (in a world of uncertain job markets and economies) is fairly common. There are legions of debt-free, two-earner couples with children.

Whether or not you are convinced his behaviour is abusive is irrelevant, Lea, thankfully.

The law states clearly that not only is his behaviour abusive, it is illegal.

Lea, what's the difference for you between controlling and abusive? What would make it abusive? I'm sure my DH doesn't see his behaviour as abusive either, but he may acknowledge controlling.

You can't convince an abuse apologist any more than you can an abuser Mo.

I'm just trying to understand what, for them, would constitute actual abuse, if none of the things I've mentioned do not convince her/him. I suppose I need to see what I'm up against.

I really do not understand Lea's point of view at all, actually.

'I can't go back to work for some time. I can maybe make some spare cash here and there but I can't commit fully to any job yet, with the family circumstances the way they are. From September, I will have three school runs a day, which will make it very difficult to fit a job around. I haven't detailed every single thing for anonymity reasons, but there are other factors as well. DH is fully aware of all of this.'

Yeah, you can. And reading this whole thread, again, you are in a very vulnerable position because you are not married. This man is abusive. You have two choices: get a job and thus put yourself in a position to leave (which is going to be easier since it appears you have not been out of work for too, too long) or put up with his abuse.

The lifestyle you have planned, with the 'family circumstances are the way they are,' is based on continuing to live with an abusive person who will not change.

And, as you are not married, your position is very, very vulnerable.

He is not a 'DH', he is an abusive partner.

I'm not an abuse apologist and I do feel sympathy for the OP, but not everyone is a victim just because he/she may not be getting everything 100 percent as she wishes.

Perhaps under the law he is abusive but the parameters are pretty subjective, aren't they? One's person strict budget is another person's abuse, apparently. Is anyone in the family actually going without food, shelter, clothing, sundries, school necessities, hot water, transportation, etc.? Or does the OP just not like financial accountability and frugal living? I have no idea but surely on a discussion forum there is room for more than one interpretation of the anecdotes presented. She admits she freely used her overdraft instead of budgeting in the past. That would be a dealbreaker for me, in a partner, tbh, if I were expected to share my earnings with him.

The OP is being afforded the opportunity to stay home with her children, even though she admits her boyfriend did not want the third child and that he regularly rues having the responsibility of three kids (is it coercive or abusive to wheedle someone into becoming a parent again against his expressed wishes, btw?) and "desperately" wants her to return to work. It is not abusive to decide after a trial period that one is tired of supporting another able-bodied adult, especially if there are alternatives for child care and it sounds as though there are.

Perhaps he initially agreed to the SAHM thing and finds now he has discomfort with the idea. Maybe national or global economic circumstances are making him nervous. Maybe he just wants to be able to accumulate more savings for financial security. The fact that he got a raise in pay that replaced the OP's missing earnings doesn't mean she never again has to contribute income to the household unless they explicitly agreed to lifelong financial support.

Maybe he is purely an abusive asshole. But as expat says and as the women's aid person seemed to indicate, it doesn't sound as if the OP has much in the way of practical recourse other than to reconcile that this is the price she pays for being SAHM, or to get out and get a job. Or pursue criminal prosecution. He's not going to change.

You see, I'm immediately intimidated by everything in Lea's last post. It sounds identical to H.
But by the way, it takes two people to make a baby and while I may have persuaded him, I certainly didn't force him or dupe him.

Expat, I really can't go back to work now. I don't want to put too many details out there. It's not an excuse. As I said, I've never been work shy or dependent before.

You do not have to defend yourself here Mo. You have come here for support and guidance.

Lea, having a roof over your head, food and clothes for your children is pretty minimal in my book. Even slaves get those things and Au pairs get those things, fewer working hours and spending money.

OP's partner is planning to buy a sports car while she cannot buy a small present for a child without it being thoroughly scrutinised.

OP, so you can't work at the moment, what a shame, but there are other things you can do, surely. At least start getting your plans in place. You have equity in the house and if you separate you will be entitled to CM and I don't know what all benefits (I don't live in the UK). You need at least a light at the end of the tunnel.

I don't mean to intimidate you, OP, and I do feel sympathy for your situation. But it sounds as though your vision of your lifestyle and your boyfriend's are completely different. He feels he is doing you a favor by supporting you. You, and many posters here feel it is his duty to support you. He is not motivated to change. You want change but, from what I read here, only on his part. It's a stalemate.

The two of you have difficulty communicating and negotiating and until that changes you will have a tough row to hoe. Is there a third-party counseling service or something along those lines that you can avail yourselves of? A mediator?

Otherwise you might want to call a solicitor and get some advice on your legal rights.

"He feels he is doing you a favor by supporting you"

Sorry to go on, Lea, but he is supporting his children, the OP sounds very low maintenance and good value for money.

I'm ashamed to admit I am thrown by all of that. Because he could be saying it and whenever he justifies himself to me I am floored by it, defend myself badly and therefore it reinforces the idea that I am being exactly as Lea portrays - a bit spoiled, entitled, expecting to be looked after. I thought I'd moved on a step or two today after calling WA but a few simple comments like that can take me right back again. I've obviously got a long way to go. Or I am embellishing my story and if you were in full possession of all the facts you might disagree with me. Very confused.

Please don't feel ashamed. Being gaslighted is very confusing and makes it very hard to be sure what is real and what isn't.

Controlling behaviour is abusive behaviour. Your man has also manipulated you in this relationship so it is of no real surprise you do not know which way is up; he has really done a number on you.

Your man has been abusive throughout your entire relationship and has ramped up the power and control ante since the very early days. The frog in the boiling water analogy springs to my mind when it comes to you; abuse like you are still experiencing increases in frequency over time.

The very last thing you want to be doing with this man is actually doing any form of joint counselling with him. It is never recommended when there is any form of abuse within the relationship. Men like yours manipulate counsellors into making them feel sorry for him and you are on the receiving end of a past master in terms of manipulators. You have no real say now and you certainly won't get any say in any joint sessions.

What did you learn about relationships when growing up?. What relationship lessons would you want to pass onto your children now?.

If someone else had written your posts MO, what would your own response to them be?.

Well OP I wish you all the best in finding a solution.

'Expat, I really can't go back to work now. I don't want to put too many details out there. It's not an excuse. As I said, I've never been work shy or dependent before.'

That's fine, but he won't change. 'Can't' means you are so physically or mentally disabled you are incapable, not because of lifestyle. What would you do if he left you tomorrow, or if he became incapacitated? Part of the effect of his abuse on you is that you don't believe in yourself anymore. He has taken away your possibilities.

You still keep calling him 'h' and putting up barriers 'I really can't go to work' 'I can't work', etc. It's giving him all the power, just what he wants.

You are not married to him. This makes you incredibly vulnerable. He has all the power, all the cards.

Until you are able to start taking that back, things are exactly how he wants them to be.

I really hope you can come to a place where you can be free of the effect he has had on you, hopefully before he does something really nasty like split with you (FAR too many threads on here from women who are not married, the partner leaves and they find themselves really screwed. Men like this begrudge paying maintenance to their children and, because they have the financial upper hand, are able to hire people to help them find ways of minimising this). As for benefits, I wouldn't count on them much longer with the way the government is going.

The following are purely facts in our relationship:

He does not allow me access to his bank account, in terms of not being allowed to access the funds or view balances and statements;
I am transferred a very small monthly amount for non-food related shopping
I am given a prepaid supermarket card that can only be used in that store and nowhere else
If I need anything outside of this, I need to ask him and explain what it's for, before he decides whether to give it to me or not
If he wants to buy something expensive and I disagree if we need it or not, he will go ahead and disregard my opinion anyway. If he wants something he gets it.
He intimidates me when it comes to any sort of expenditure at all and I am often afraid to ask for fear of his reaction

If I can't be sure what goes through his account exactly, how can I be sure if he is lying or not? He doesn't trust me when spending small amounts but he expects me to trust that he is being truthful about his own finances.

Here is the fact: he is financially abusive. He will not change. These people never do.

The only thing you can do is change yourself and take back your own financial power.

To me what is acceptable is that all family money is allocated as a joint decision and unless it's unaffordable each partner as equal free spending money.

So I would see:

Money for bills ( determined externally)
Money for food - budget agreed by both
Money for clothing/shoes for each person - budget agreed by both
Money for children activities inc. party attendance etc. - activities and associated costs agreed between both adults
Money for savings - holidays, new car, house, white goods, furnishings etc. budget agreed by both and purchases agreed by both
Money for Christmas & birthdays - agreed by both

Money for free spends - whether it's going out with friends, make-up, gym membership, sale shopping etc. both have the same weekly allowance to save up or spend as required

Some couples have a rough budget in their minds and they both stick to it without it written down/spelled. Yes some need the budgets agreed to and to keep a running check on whether they are sticking to it.

However what is unacceptably controlling is one person holding the purse strings and the other having no say in the budget for each of the above, having no access to money and having to justify every purchase made. The fact that all savings are in the purse holders name only and they spend it as the choose is just abusive IMHO.