Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

Kitty, haha, I slipped up. I'm getting it slowly though.

You definitely are :)

I made the call. The woman I spoke to reacted in the same way as everyone on this thread and backed up the fact he shouldn't be doing what he's doing. However, nice as she was, she wasn't that helpful.

One suggestion from her I am not sure what to make of. She said, since he likes to talk in financial terms, maybe tell him if we were to split up, the amount of child maintenance he would have to pay (from what I've worked out is a substantial amount). However I told her he'd just shoot me down if I said that as he'd say to me ok, you might have that, but you'd be paying rent on your own, bills on your own. I told her he has an answer for everything.

She admitted this type of abuse is very difficult to advise on because it's mixed up with all sorts of other problems within the relationship. I don't think she was very experienced though, or knew what to say to me.

She gave me the number for the CAB helpline for help with legal issues that she can't help with. Maybe because I've already spoken to the wise folk of MN, there wasn't much else to say that I haven't already explored.

It will take me another glut of courage to call the CAB now too.

Well done!! She's sounds very inexperienced as you say. I think it's poor advice to use CM as a bargaining tool. I would encourage you to talk to the police/DV. Are WA offering anything further?

The police...oh god, I don't know if I could do that. Yet. Sounds far too scary and serious. Not offering any more, except I can call again if I need to. They can't offer any legal advice (or maybe that was just the person I spoke to?).

Actually yes, I did want to talk about things in terms of the recent change in the law that was mentioned on this thread, I forgot and the conversation didn't go that way and the woman I spoke to didn't sound like she could have helped with that.

Can you not see this simple fact:

You were receiving Mat Pay whilst you had 2 dc and were expected to pay for all the little things for 3 of you whilst he earned a much higher salary due to the childcare you provided yet he only had to pay for the little things for himself....

Honestly his behaviour is disgusting.

Would you really have to pay rent - after all the house is legally half yours, you downsize and buy something much smaller with your share of the money. He is so so so abusive and you are so worn down

Honestly you should tell him how much a full time hired help would cost - so a high nanny wage plus on costs of employing one - that is what you are saving him in ££££££ the fact his mother may or may not have all 3 DC for free is irrelevant.

That is what I'm thinking about the police DV team. Not necessarily to report him at this stage. But for advice and guidance as a first step. It's a brand new law so I guess no one knows quite how it will operate yet.

But what is the actual law? Where can I find the full details, does anyone know?

I can't link on my phone but if you google Coercive Control Law 2015 there is a Guardian article which explains it.

I don't want to report him. He is very intelligent and even though I don't know what the future is for us, he just needs a neutral person with some authority that he respects to tell him straight that what he is doing is not right. I've just described the police, haven't I? Shit that's not what I meant. I don't know who else that person would be or how it could happen.

Thank you Kitty

No problem. He won't listen though. Or acknowledge that he is abusing you. I am so pleased you called WA.

What if I tell him his behaviour is illegal? I have plenty of emails which demonstrate his controlling over me - me asking for money, him asking what it's for, saying yes/no, it's too much, having to explain myself etc. We have also argued by email before so I'm searching for them all. I wish I had more, as the things that really really insulted me I don't have on record (other than me emailing a friend at the time about it).

Mo, I am not sure if you have said, but do you love him, do you want this marriage to work? I mean, are you hoping he will change? Nobody actually needs a reason to leave but I just wondered if ultimately you want to stay with him.

Of course I'm hoping he will change, contrary to what everyone else is telling me. I think you always hope your man will turn out to be different. It's very difficult to love someone in this situation. I keep remembering the times when we used to end a call saying 'love you' and it wasn't that long ago. I have mixed up feelings of everything for him now - hatred, anger, despair, disappointment, disgust, but also worry and concern for him because he simply can't be that callous, we decided three times after to all to have a child, we've had many, many good times and many good memories.

Forgot to answer if I want to stay with him. I'd be prepared to stay with him only if he recognises how his behaviour has affected me and our family. I'm terrified he will never be able to do that, and will always blame me for breaking up out family, if it does come to that.

Then I think you need to get back to work Mo, I don't think he can or will change his attitude to seeing you as an equal partner until you do. Very difficult situation.

I can't go back to work for some time. I can maybe make some spare cash here and there but I can't commit fully to any job yet, with the family circumstances the way they are. From September, I will have three school runs a day, which will make it very difficult to fit a job around. I haven't detailed every single thing for anonymity reasons, but there are other factors as well. DH is fully aware of all of this.

He has made it clear he doesn't want 100 percent of the financial burden of supporting the family. I think you may need to accept that and tbh it's not an unreasonable stance. It's a lot of pressure for one person to shoulder the livelihood for five people.

When you were planning your family was any timeframe discussed for SAHMhood or did you assume you would never have to earn an income again? Was that explicitly stated?

What ages are the children and when will all be in school? Perhaps if he felt there was a light at the end of the tunnel he wouldn't be so mean now.

Perhaps if he felt there was a light at the end of the tunnel he wouldn't be so mean now.

Honestly? This man is abusive, not mean.

Lea, you sound like you might be my DH! You are making it sound reasonable, and feeding my doubts. Because on some token, I can appreciate all of those points you just made.

But none of those things means that he has to micromanage your spending in the way that he does...

I only stopped work with baby no.3. This coincided with a big uplift in salary for him, which has since increased again, therefore my previous earnings are more than covered. We agreed I'd stay off work until the youngest was in school. Damn, I never got it in writing, because I didn't think I'd have to. It's a very short time in the grand scheme of things. I never thought I'd have to feel guilty for stopping work to look after our children bloody hell, I've worked since I was a teenager, even when I was a student I always had a job, and continued my whole life with virtually no gap - until now that is.

Thank you 12purpleapples. We could work together on it, he could tell me a rough limit to spending each month and I could get on with it. Like an adult, like a responsible parent. What does he think I'm going to do with his money, run off with it?