Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

How do people with children usually decide who lives where, who stays in the house if jointly owned, what if he wants to sell and I don't or vice versa?
If he refuses to leave what would happen then?
How much CM would he have to pay? Someone mentioned 20% of salary, is this accurate? Does it make any difference how many children you have?
These are probably very basic questions but I have no idea about any of them.

You need to see a solicitor. This will need to be done through WA as you are denied access to money. You can do some preliminary googling though. There is an online child maintenance calculator which will give you an idea. Yes it makes a difference how many children you have and how many nights they spend with the other parent. Maybe calculate on the basis of one night a week. You might also want to speak to the police DV specialist on the non emergency number because, with the recent change to the law, his behaviour is criminal.

Asking the basic questions is the best place to start

Thank you Kitty that's very helpful. What do you mean his behaviour is criminal?

She means that the law changed recently to include financial abuse as a form of emotional abuse, which is now treated the same as domestic violence, ie it is against the law. I would think financial abuse is fairly easy to prove as well.

Speak to women's aid about how to go about getting the proof of it in black and white.

Mo, you said you might email him about how you feel,, the excellent post by Tracker would be worth modifying and sending to him if you want to go down that route, would he respond? If, so you might have your proof .
The more you write the worse it sounds, and yes the law has been changed to include financial and emotional abuse as DV.

There was a recent change in the law so that emotional abuse, coercive control, as well as financial abuse, are now included alongside physical abuse, and are therefore criminal behaviours and people who do what your p is doing can be prosecuted.

If you phone 101, ask for the dv unit, and talk to them. Tell them about him, everything you've put on this thread. You can just talk to them without taking it further, but do push for the dv unit as those officers will have been trained and experienced in recognising abuse.

Alternatively, ring Women's Aid, who are likely to have even more experience in recognising the signs of abuse in all its incarnations.

On working out what benefits you might get and how much p would have to contribute, you can start by seeing someone at CAB, if you want to put off talking to to WA.

Please do get outside help.

I see Dollius, Grumpy and Jux got there ahead of me. OP, I've been trawling w lot lately, but I can't yet find the statute-book text of the new law about coercive control. (Guys, I've looked on direct.gov and Women'sAid websites - anywhere else one would find this?)

I do remember, however (hopefully correctly), that a couple of the benchmarks are:

• that [the abuse] causes distress
• that it be on at least two occasions

You've ticked those boxes, and then some, since you started this thread, let alone (no doubt) all the times you've just been working up the courage before posting!

Please do get help. Do it today.

Anyfucker posted a link to the new laws the other day, I will try to find it again....

Controlling behaviour is:

a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate and/or dependent by isolating them from sources of support, exploiting their resources and capacities for personal gain, depriving them of the means needed for independence, resistance and escape and regulating their everyday behaviour.

C & P from a family law site. Does that strike a chord Mo?

I totally agree with contacting womans aid and 101 to speak to someone about the abuse.

The problem with the child maintenance calculator is you will have to know how much he earns in order to calculate it... which you don't because he doesn't want you to know. I would do all maintenance through CSA (don't think its actually called CSA anymore) as he will only lie about his salary and he sounds very selfish with his money so wont want to give you any no doubt!! This way the CSA will give you it direct from his wage!

You need to speak to Women's Aid. You are being abused.

FWIW I have been a sahm for the last 12 years although I now have a very small PT job. My DH has never with held money from me. I have the 'housekeeping money' for groceries and things related to the children. But I also have a credit card which he pays, and if I ever need extra money he just gives it with no argument. If I go out with friends for dinner he will give me money for it with out me asking.

If any thing DH gets annoyed with me if I see something I like but I don't buy it because it's for me rather then the family.

And let me guess, the only reason you used your overdraft when you were working was because you were paying more than your fair share of household bills and were left with too little to live on?

I honestly don't remember it like that, Dollius. I used to pay a chunk of the mortgage, which was fair, then when I dropped to maternity pay, he stopped that payment, but I still covered utilities which was fine. Maybe I was at fault for spending too much without keeping a close enough eye and he has a point, I am not meticulous like him. My spending was not lavish though, I never used to splash out on anything, just little bits and pieces for the kids and the house.
When I was working he treated me more respectfully. We still had arguments, but nothing on the scale that they are now. I am sure it is directly related to that. I am worth nothing now, because all I do is look after children and domestic chores and for some reason to him it has no value.
We have exchanged a couple of emails though today, at least conversation is open. He finds it easier to discuss my 'feelings' in that way than he does in person. I'm waiting for his next reply.

Keep those emails Mo, don't delete them, even if he sounds reasonable in what he says. Your ideas have been skewed because he has done a proper number on you.

Nobody is that meticulous. Did you have equal disposable spending money when you were working or did he have a lot more than you.

Yes, get his stance on this in writing. Get him to state in an emIl why you can't choose where you shop or that you and the kids will have t starve if £75 a week grocery money isn't enough.

Then call women's aid for advice.

I have to admit I never looked at I like that. We always had separate accounts but he always paid the larger expenses/larger proportion as I only earned 1/3 of what he did. However you're right, I didn't actually have access to more than what was in my account, I never have. I never thought that was particularly weird or unfair. Does it sound unfair? He has never ever wanted to pool our money together.

I never thought of him (expecting me to feel grateful) for paying off my overdraft as a form of control. He just made me feel careless and out of control for going over. But it could be either one of those things. I can't say I was not at fault for spending too much carelessly.

And of course he can say he can't trust you with money "but you ran up that overdraft Mo"

Sorry, I meant that to be that he can use that against you, it sounded more like I was saying he might have a point so apologies if that is how it came across

clutterbugsmum it Doesnt sound like tou have access to family money either though??? He pays off your credit card, preaumably from his account, the account his wage goes into? And he gives you money when youre going out? So you cant go to the bank and get it yourself?

The very fact he was able to pay it off in one or two payments I suppose shows he had the money. I've honestly never ever thought of it like that before. He made me feel irresponsible. But I do still believe that, a bit.

You really ought to have direct access to money. What if there's an emergency and he's uncontactable. What if you suddenly have to get a taxi to a hospital with one of the children, for instance? Can you go to a cash machine and get some dosh? No.

In that sort of situation, I'd use my beloved overdraft. I know what you're saying. I've just been living this way for so long the thought of having free access to his money is inconceivable.

It's not his money.