Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

Dozydotes, I like your idea of just telling it like it is to everyone. It could work. Not sure to achieve what though, other than sympathy and disbelief in others. But he might just be blind to it because for him it is normal since that's what he grew up with, that the money earner controls the non earning one and if the non earner wants some control back, they have to go out and earn it and not expect it from the earner.

Whatever you do di not allow your wages to go into a joint account when you get work. Keep your own account. It is my worst mistake to have agreed to joint finances. I have full access but don't feel like I do. The feeling is where the control is.

I just wanted you to have another person tell you that this is not normal behaviour.

I have been a SAHM for 11 years, my sons are 12 and 9. I worked part time after Ds1 was born but gave that up when we we relocated for Dh's job, he earns far far more than me.

After we moved his new salary meant that we were better off than when I worked and we paid for childcare. We knew we wanted a second child so it made sense for me to stay home with Ds1.

Both my parents worked full time and had a joint account, Dh's Mum was a SAHM and had "housekeeping" money from FIL. I told Dh there is no way I am putting my hand out and asking for money like a child.

We have a credit card in Dh's name, I have an affiliated card so I can spend spend spend (I am very sensible ) he pays the bill each month. No questions about how much something cost. I have access to the joint account, Dh's accounts, my own accounts. Everything is open and I know how much he earns, to the penny.

Dh knows that he couldn't have progressed his career without me being able to collect a sick child, be here for school holidays etc. He respects what I do because his Mother raised him correctly. To appreciate a SAHM. I appreciate and respect Dh for all that he takes on, being the sole earner.

I have a car in my name, bought with money Dh earns. Mine is far better and newer than Dh's because I take Ds2 to school in it every day. It is teh "family" car. His is used for stuffing unwanted garden waste to take to the tip

I do claim child benefit for the cash into my bank account and for the NI contributions whilst I am not working.

Your relationship is all kinds of wrong

Thank you so much, I appreciate hearing stories of how 'normal' families work. It sounds as it should be.
Even when I was earning, we never had a joint account - he was obviously afraid of me contaminating his money or something. Anyway good thing, I've always had my own account and he's never had direct access to it.

DozeyDotes, it was probably me who said "sunlight is the best disinfectant", but I can't claim copyright - they used that expression of The West Wing a lot.

OP - I strongly suggest you make the upcoming girls' night out an example. Tell him now that you're expected to be there, and if you aren't, people are going to wonder why. Or variations on that theme. If you're feeling extra brave, link it to that most SAHMs don't have to beg for every farthing. And that you're not going to lie about it.

As you mention, he sometimes comes through if he has time to adjust to the idea, so start now, or perhaps on Friday night when out with friends.

BTW, this is just a patch, not a solution. In general I agree with most on the LTB brigade on this. Sorry.

Leave this sack of shit but not before getting him for every penny.

Oh Mo, that is such a terrifying thought. If he thinks this is normal because of how he grew up imagine what he's teaching your DC right now. They (and you) deserve so much better. I suspect he does know that what he's doing is not okay and that he also knows the way he grew up wasn't okay either. I imagine he would feel a great deal of shame if others knew that his OH was reduced to selling Xmas gifts on eBay to avoid having to beg for money to buy a bra. It's important that you don't keep his secrets if they're hurting you and your DC.

He's treating you like a child and horribly abusing the financial power he has over you. As other posters have attested, lots of women are in a position where their OH's have financial power over them at this stage of their lives (sahm with young DC). Thankfully most men don't abuse that power. They treat their OH's like grown women who have as much right to make financial choices as they do. Where on earth did he get the idea that he could use you to care for HIS DC while he went out and built his personal fortune? It's completely ridiculous. If he's so convinced the person who earns the cash gets to make all the choices tell him he has to take this year off to care for the DC so you can build your own empire. It's only fair.

I can only imagine how ground down you feel having to live like this. If you don't feel you can leave yet then try and take as much power back as you can. Don't debate things like school uniforms. Tell him to either transfer the money or organise them himself. Don't enter into arguments. Do what you need to do to get by. Find a friend who will put their shopping on your store card and give you the cash. Sell household items. Be resourceful, be a survivor and do whatever you need to do. Don't be secretive but don't enter into arguments either. If your OH doesn't like how it is he can be the one to leave or he can change. There are better days ahead for you and your DC as your strength grows

I really loved that advice Preemptive (shall attribute properly in future ). It's so easy to lose perspective when it's all going on in private.

I don't think this is normal at all.

We are both working and have our own wages into our own accounts, and pay for different things. I earn quite a bit more than she does. When she was on maternity she'd ask me for a grand or two here and there, and will occasionally ask for a little now on expensive months. Here, sure, I'll transfer it now. My card details are saved into various things and she'll ask "is it ok to spend £x on your card?". Sure go ahead. I don't really even care what it's for, we've got separate accounts but at the end of the day what's mine is hers and vice versa.

It'd only be a problem if I was struggling or if it started getting a bit suspicious..

Thank you David. I want to tell him to ask all his married/cohabiting friends what they do/did when one
wasn't working FT right now. I just want to prove to him that it is perfectly normal to share everything fairly in a relationship, even money.

"I just want to prove to him that it is perfectly normal to share everything fairly in a relationship, even money"

You will bust a gut trying and ultimately failing. He is abusive in nature so you will not be able to prove this to him. He has not really listened to you before now and regards you with utter contempt disdain.

His own dad acts the same towards his wife and his son, now your H, learnt how to control from him. The apple did not fall far from the rotten tree that is your H's family of origin.

I suppose I know that really. But I can't help but try.

If he's like this because that's how his father was, what does that mean for your kids?

I think a pp had it right when she said something like "if he believes his way is reasonable he won't mind other people knowing"
He does sound awful, does he have good points? Can you buy make-up, tampax and so on?

Oh no but you see he must know it's not reasonable because he puts on a face all the time. As soon as it's time to socialise, he's back to anecdote-telling, laughing and joking like you wouldn't believe. But I see the point that he possibly doesn't completely get it, or he wouldn't be behaving that way in the first place. But if I did expose him in the way that I mentioned, oh yes, he would be angry with me, that's for sure.
I can buy my basic needs, but that's it, pretty much anything else is a special request job.

Lovey, you need to get angry with him now - easier said than done. Took me years, different issues but the worm turned and I bit right back.

Shit. Just had an argument with him about the shopping card and I completely crumbled at each and every one of his arguments.

He is a wanker, sorry. Does he know how unhappy you are? I hope you find strength to bin him.

Then he just reminded you of what an abusive bully he really is. Sorry.

AngryMo if you were to take the piss out of his meanness tomorrow night and he then got angry at you afterwards, you could ask why he's angry? Because that would show that he KNOWS what he's doing but doesn't want anyone else to know
He can't justify being angry at you saying how things are unless he's ashamed of it can he?

I'm so sorry AM.

When you think about it, you will probably realise his arguments are false and he has stitched you up. Or, to put it simply, bullied you into accepting the unacceptable. Because he's full of BS - all abusive bullies are.

It's pointless trying to reason with unreasonable people, but so easy to be drawn into it :(

I'm really glad you have your own account, that is a great start.

What if everything he's said is true? How do you not all know that I've completely skewed the facts and omitted important details (knowingly or not)? You don't, obviously. But I have to analyse every single thing he said to me. He is still making me out to be greedy and entitled, and if I want extra things I need to go out and work for them. He is still making out that me leaving my job has left a huge gap, even though his salary has since increased to cover at least what I used to earn, no question. I am in huge doubt right now that I am talking baloney. Because I still do not possess the full facts. And he is never going to sit down and go through things with me in order for me to understand his reasoning.

You are unhappy and don't have access to enough money - all the while keeping house and looking after the children - what more is there to know?

How do you not all know that I've completely skewed the facts and omitted important details (knowingly or not)?

.....Because he isn't behaving normally or reasonably. What important details could you possibly omit that would justify reducing you to tears over trivial, necessary family expenditure, for example ? Or restricting you to one shop with a prepaid card, as if you were a little child being punished for irresponsibility?

His contempt for you shines out like an ugly beacon. We don't even need to know what he said :(

He is also acting as though he is doing his family a big favour by paying family expenses. Perhaps he thinks you're rent a family. One fixed monthly sum and the job's done. No extras allowed, as they don't deserve it - they aren't money earners like he is.....

You said in one of your first posts that he desperately wants you to go back to work. Have you considered that doing so might alleviate many of your problems?

What age are your children? Are they in school?

If someone told me he didn't want to be the sole financial support of me, I would hasten to find a job. It sounds as though his salary combined with what you earn could cover a nanny. And you wouldn't be as powerless in the relationship.