Financial control. What is normal?

[AngryMo]

I've lost count how many times I've tried to start this thread, and don't know how to articulate it as I don't really know what I want. It ranges from I need to leave ASAP to I might as well just stay.

The many questions that I keep switching between are:

Is DH emotionally/financially abusive? I don't know if I'm imagining it or if it is real.

How do couples manage their finances if one stays at home? I want to know what other people do to see if the way he manages it is normal or not.

Why does he on the one hand, show off to his friends about the money he's spent doing up our house recently and the flashy things he's bought, but on the other, makes me feel like I'm almost stealing his money when I need cash for housekeeping or other essential things for the children (we agreed I would stay home until kids are in school)? Why does he make me account for every single penny like we don't have any money when I know he has plenty? Why did he buy me an expensive gift for Christmas and splash out on expensive wines and things for our guests but then have a go at me for spending £7.50 on a gift for a friend's daughter, which he then checked the price of online to check I wasn't lying?

I'm exhausted living with him and he makes me miserable which can't be much fun for him either. I don't see how he can enjoy being in this relationship either. In the past he's humiliated me in front of friends, reducing me to tears in front of them, he's stormed off leaving me in a restaurant on my own with a full plate after I wanted to discuss what was wrong with us and how we could fix it. I've also had two panic attacks because of how he treats me. He never apologises in person but has by email but even the never spontaneously, always as a result of me telling him he needs to apologise.

Also, he doesn't really react when I tell him we should probably just split up and then pretends everything is fine after an argument's died down. Why does he do that?

I never get any real emotion from him and I don't remember the last time I thought what a lovely person you are. I used to, but that was years ago. I get so jealous when I see happy couples bantering away together, being affectionate with one another.

But then again, maybe I am a complete idiot, what was I thinking giving up my job to look after my children? Why did I hand over my financial independence? Is he right to control my spending so tightly? Should I have to ask every time I need to buy a new bra or want to take the kids out or need to buy a present for a friend? Maybe this is normal, I don't know. Maybe it is all his money and I don't deserve to be spending it. I rarely ask for money for anything frivolous. Maybe because he earns the money, if he wants to spend £2000 on an appliance I have no right to say it's too expensive. I'm so scared to tell him I overspent the other day by accident. He's never been physically abusive but I'm scared of his reaction. Often if I tell him something - anything, not necessarily money related, I wonder why I bothered because it's not worth the grief, so I keep many things to myself and it makes me secretive which I dislike. I am a very open person generally and it's not in my nature to behave that way but I feel forced to.

Thing is though because I am now financially dependent, he knows it's not that easy for me to leave. I don't know what to do. I love my children deeply and they are only small and need us to be together.

Anyone who can relate to me or has any experience, has words of advice, or even to tell me I'm being pathetic, whatever it is, I would like to know.

So in truth, it would be very wise to get a job before leaving him, because going on benefits is going to be a very limited option, if one at all, soon enough.

I remember collecting it from the post office with a book. My youngest is only 15.

It's been tax credits for a while. And will soon be Universal Credit.

It's obviously a long term plan for me to do some work, save some money up and decide my future. And I can work towards that. But what I can't handle is sitting here in stony silence with him because everything I say is going to end up in either an argument or me just treading on eggshells to keep the peace. That's the hardest part. I don't want to put on an act, yet there is no other choice. How long can he put up with me responding in little more than grunts until he thinks something is seriously wrong? On top of Friday night's impending performance, we now also have a Saturday thing too. With a different couple, who are more my friends than his. So that makes it worse. I so want to tell her not to do it, as I don't want to waste their time and I don't want to pretend we're a happy couple as I'd rather she knows the truth. Yet I don't think I'm ready to tell her yet and so I feel I just have to go through with it. This is horrible.

When he asks what is wrong etc. TELL HIM something short and sweet that is a negation are argument.

"I feel like an unpaid servant because you don't treat me like your equal" then walk away.

urgh - that is not negotiable or starting an argument - just how you FEEL because of the way he treats you.

If I had the opportunity to respond like that, I would but I don't think he'll ask. He knows we have two things coming up where I have to put on an act, so he'll use that as a way to brush stuff under the carpet. How how how can he think any of this is OK. What is the point in staying together? I'm not even sleeping in the same bed so it is like living with a lodger...except that would be much easier of course.

You know you could cancel? Phone the hosts and apologise but that you are no longer able to make it.

I don't know how to. I feel like I have a vice around my chest (sorry I know that sounds corny). I can't cancel. I explained before that the first couple are getting married soon and we've been invited to the wedding so I feel weird cancelling on them, it would be weird. Plus it's all booked and arranged, place, babysitting etc. The second couple, I see them all the time so just don't know how to say no because it's not a case of me not wanting to see them or spend time with them. I want to but not under these circumstances. I'm a terrible liar. I'm a wuss, I know. Maybe that's how I get strung along.

I'm an idiot and spineless. I'm crying to myself now because in a few weeks' time some old friends I haven't seen for ages are organising a get together (just girls, no partners) and in this case, because it's nothing to do with him, I'm going to have to say I can't go because I literally wouldn't be able to afford it and I'm scared to ask him "permission" (I.e. Extra cash to get there, dinner, drinks).
It sounds like I have a very active social life or something but I promise you this is all just coincidental invitations happening at the same time.

You know this is a very painful realisation you are in the process of, if you are honest/rock the boat with friends you are having to publically admit it's on the road to being over.

You are not being a wuss but please get some RL support and help from others.

Too scared to ask for money to go out, that is so desperately sad to read

Because I'm not playing ball at the moment, I am not in a good position in his eyes to deserve a treat like that, I guess. That's why I don't even want to approach the subject. It's been being talked about for weeks in a chat group and I've been very silent.

It's just awful, so awful for you. Ask him for the money now as the group need to know numbers for booking the table?

Start your child benefit claim, yeah he'll have to do a tax return but so what that is his problem.

Because he needs to know each and every expenditure, he makes me feel like I am asking for money ALL the time. He makes the subject of money something that has to be discussed frequently rather than just an occasional when it's necessary thing. I am very sensitive about when I have to do it, I have to be very tactful and careful and sometimes butter him up a bit first - much to my distaste.

On top of the should I try to go/shouldn't I, I have the pretending everything's great at home because these are not close enough friends nor is it the occasion to be telling everyone about my relationship problems. The constant dishonesty is hideous.

I think I'm just going to send him an email saying I am scared of him, scared to ask him for the things I need and the things I need to run this house and look after the children. Also I'm not sure if I can pretend in front of other people that we're fine at the moment, because we are not. Do you think we're ok? I want to ask him.

Haven't read the full thread so I apologise if i'm repeating anything.

Just wanted to let you know that I could have written your original post, word for word... the money, the humiliation, the outsourcing child care to his mother... You could have been me! I asked myself the same questions, I was treat the same way.

Don't torture yourself wondering why he is the way he is or look for a reason; people like that don't change or realise that their behaviour is wrong.

Yes he IS financially and emotionally abusive and it's not normal: I've been single for 6 months now and I now realise that. I feel so much freedom now, although there were other factors in my finally deciding and accepting that it was over.

Life can be so much better than how you're living at the moment.Even though finances are tight now that I am on my own, its priceless compared to living how I was. I hope you find the clarity that you need OP.

I think that's a really good idea. If you don't feel you can say it to his face, putting it in writing is a good way to think about what you want to say rather than getting tongue tied and forgetting things. I feel so much sympathy for you, I really hope you can get it sorted with him

Going out with your friends is not an unreasonable request. If he says no then I think for me it would be a massive incentive to find my own job so I could make these decisions for myself

OP, I'd love to be able to say to you just ltb but I can see that you feel there are a lot of barriers to that at the moment. I read some advice on a different thread that "the best disinfectant is sunlight" (apologies for not remembering which poster gave this excellent advice).

Your OH has the financial power and he's presumably set things up how he wants them to be. It doesn't sound like he's willing to listen to reason about the way healthy relationships should work financially so maybe it's worth a try to not debate it any further. Just let him know that you will not keep his dirty little secret any more. Do not hide your financial arrangements to friends or family. If you can't go somewhere because you can't get the money from your OH then say so openly to those involved. If you can't buy DC the correct uniform then say so openly to the school and let them know the reason why. Tell him you will be doing this from now on, follow through and do not discuss it further. If anyone asks why you are putting up with this tell them that you have no choice atm but you will be getting a job asap so that you don't have to live like this any more. If your OH thinks his arrangements are reasonable he should have no issue with the world knowing about them.

In the meantime can you take what control you can? Perhaps try selling things on ebay so you can have some cash to yourself?

Why did you give up your job and financial independence for a " strange, ice cold man " ?

He sounds like a right prize ( not ) but you knew that about him anyway .

If he's not that into you / the family thing he probably does feel you are sponging off him. You can't change an attitude like that. He sort of has a point , if he is a strange , ice cold man.

What did you expect?

Sorry to be so harsh but you must have seen this coming. There is no point in advising you that " it should be family money " when in his eyes he is out there grafting while you have an easy life at home with the children.

That is his perception, rightly or wrongly , and a variation of this is at the heart of many problems in relationships when children come along.

You need to find paid work and take things from there .
Good luck

That came out far too harsh -sorry .
...the problem with living with someone like that is your spirit becomes completely crushed and you can't see that there are other options, other ways to live.

You absolutely do NOT need to suck up his brand of crap forever.

Does he have any idea how close to breaking you are ?
How would he react if he thought you might leave him ?

iminshock People change and all too many change into their parents.

Iminshock, the strange ice cold man I was describing was his father, not him. But nevertheless he is becoming a version of his father.

You are at the stage I got to many times. You been conditioned to not ask because it is easier. But when you are giving him the silent treatment and seething underneath you are feeding his negative opinions of you. He will blame you for not asking and for being difficult. It becomes do easy for him to turn it around on you.
You need to take that last little bit of strength you have and confront everything as often as you can. Whenyyou know something is unfair you must tel him so.
The are a couple of reasons why. You will feel less weak and trapped because at least you are fighting back. The arguments may be horrendous but don't give in. The worst that could happen is that he might leave. But that's not a bad thing is it?
The other reason is that his reaction to you being strong may surprise you. He might just go along with it. You might get what you want. I am not saying this is the case every time but you have built a picture where you can't ask for things but aretnot testing it out due to the conditioning. This suits him because they're will be things he knows he can't refuse if you just insist on it. But you need to be brave.
Of course these are short term solutions and the long term idea is to have your own income and leave.

There is some truth, whatdoesittake, in that he does sometimes give in/go along with things eventually. It's like a notice period for him to get used to the idea. If I drop something on him, or if something unplanned happens that we need money for, he doesn't like it. But if I can see that I'm going to need something, I have to be very structured in my approach. I will have to mention it subtly for a few days/weeks whatever, it might even turn into an argument, it might not, but eventually, sometimes, he comes round. I think he doesn't like to be told, or it may seem like a demand from me, which he doesn't like. If he comes round in his own time, then it's more him making the decision than me, then that's the way he works. I suppose it's him taking control again, which is what he needs. It is exhausting though and half the time I just don't even bother because it's too much hard work, plus the strong chance of conflict over it.
So you're right, I could keep on, nagging, being persistent, whatever it is, and he might find the money for it. But it's not way to work, and it's grinding me down. I've been in this place with him many times, and sometimes we/I come out of it and can function normally again, even have a laugh with him (doesn't sound like it would be possible though, with everything I've said). But even the last few times that's happened it's worse because of all the built up anxiety on my part that I brush to one side.