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Original poster

FIL kicked my DS (2) - advice please

157 replies

ChristmasAdvice · 28/12/2015 10:37

Hi

This is my first time posting but I would really appreciate some perspective please.

On Christmas Eve my FIL kicked my DS (age 2) and my DH and I are really struggling to come to terms with it.

I was not there but my DS had kicked my FIL. My DH had told him not to kick and he ran off, then headed back to do the same again. My DH stepped between DS and FIL to prevent it happening again. FIL said no it's ok I've got this- he let my DS kick him and then FIL kicked him on the shin. It was hard enough that he cried hard and the bruise is still there.

I went round and told my FIL that it was not acceptable but he was angry with me for going round rather than sorry for what he had done.

We have not seen them since. Any discussions on the phone have basically indicated that they think we are over reacting.

Any advice would be welcome.

OP posts:
Original poster
ChristmasAdvice · 28/12/2015 11:01

Calzone, I have thought of this, but still disagree! He knows we do not smack our children.

I don't think his intentions were good he did it to teach him a lesson.

OP posts:
OldFarticus · 28/12/2015 11:01

Not condoning but maybe it is a generational thing. If he is normally a good egg then I would try to temper your anger a little whilst making it clear that kicking a 2 year old is not acceptable.

Like Calzone I was bitten whenever I bit and slapped when I slapped etc. My DM also gave me a cigarette when I was 5 because I kept nagging her to let me try it Shock was sick as a dog, never touched a ciggie since She would probably think that you were overreacting - it was pretty common in the 1970's.

It was a different and less enlightened time so maybe cut him some slack in the spirit of Chrimbo.

BathtimeFunkster · 28/12/2015 11:01

Does FIL have bruises from being kicked over and over by a bold child?

How are you addressing your son's behaviour?

Which was atrocious, regardless of how you feel about his grandfather's response.

Pipistrella · 28/12/2015 11:02

He sounds like a stupid man.

I would not be letting him see my child again, because I couldn't trust someone stupid enough to think this was a good idea - what's next, stick his hand inside the oven to show him it hurts?

FFS

what an old fool. Sad

diddl · 28/12/2015 11:03

How was your husband disciplined as a child?

Instead of leaving it when FIL said it was OK, he really should have removed your son-who had run back to do exactly what he had just been told not to do.

Whilst I don't agree at all with what your FIL did, I also think that your husband handled it badly & your toddler bore the consequence.

Morganly · 28/12/2015 11:03

Yes, it's a generational thing. It's supposed to teach children not to hurt others by giving them a taste of their own medicine. It was common when I was a child.

Now that you've made it clear that you will not tolerate the physical disciplining of your child, I doubt he'll do it again, though I expect they are having a good grumble about modern parenting: "I was smacked regularly and it never did me any harm" etc etc.

BathtimeFunkster · 28/12/2015 11:04

I don't think his intentions were good he did it to teach him a lesson.

It's a lesson the child needs to learn, so intending to teach it is good.

You quibble with his method, that's different.

Unless you think it's fine for a 2 year old to target people for repeated kicks?

mudandmayhem01 · 28/12/2015 11:04

I don't think age is any excuse, I suspect he grew up in the 60s/ 70s raised kids in the 80s/ 90s. Kicking toddlers certainly was acceptable in any families I knew.

Pyjamaface · 28/12/2015 11:05

4 years ago FIL raised his hand at DS whilst pissed, as usual. We left the next day and he hasn't laid eyes on DS since and never will unless he apologises and stops drinking.
Seeing as hell isn't predicted any cold wwater, I doubt he will see him again ever

Pipistrella · 28/12/2015 11:05

Anyway, lots of two year olds do this sort of violent behaviour; it isn't generally malicious, or copycat behaviour or anything concerning - it is establishing a boundary and you have to deal with it in a helpful manner, to teach them that it is not OK.

This does NOT include kicking them back.

My now 12yo was quite dangerous as a 2yo. He's gentle, walks away from conflict, gets on with everyone, now. It doesn't last long - he was fine by the time he was about, erm, three.

and I have another 2yo now, just the same, who is learning not to hurt people. I don't worry about him.

DoreenLethal · 28/12/2015 11:05

He was so angry with me going round and called me a bully. He was not remorseful at all and this is probably what I'm struggling with most.

He kicks a 2 year old and you are the bully?

WipsGlitter · 28/12/2015 11:06

Was your DS kicking him thinking it was funny? If it had been going on as part of a "game" - did it then get out of hand. I'm not condoning what your FIL did but if he'd been being kicked all afternoon (and possibly encouraging it or other family members were egging DS on) then it could have led on from that.

Looking for the "trigger" as to why your DS "lashed out"?? Possibly because he was just being naughty?

Janeymoo50 · 28/12/2015 11:06

His response was wrong. But the child should not have been kicking and going back for more wasn't the best idea. Never seeing the child again is as per usual on MN a huge ott reaction BUT he has to be told in no uncertain terms that he must never, ever respond that way as it's not his place to decide how to "punish" your little boy (that's your job).

NeedsAsockamnesty · 28/12/2015 11:06

So he used physical chastisement that left a bruise that is still there and it was witnessed by his father?

Why haven't you called the police that is a crime

IguanaTail · 28/12/2015 11:07

I guess he would be pretty appalled if you said that you don't agree with adults kicking and then gave him a bloody great kick in the shins.

hesterton · 28/12/2015 11:08

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Pipistrella · 28/12/2015 11:08

Oh and (last post I promise)

I was invited to a 'party' once with a group of people with their small children.

One of the children bit her mum, who instantly bit her back.

Everyone said oh that'll teach her

I left and didn't stay in touch

There are circles in which this sort of 'discipline' is seen as usual. I have to say that the inteligence and educational level of the people I witnessed doing it appeared pretty low.

Original poster
ChristmasAdvice · 28/12/2015 11:09

Bathtimefunkster. I do not think that my DS kicking FIL is acceptable and we do discipline any acts of violence however not with violence.

My DH regrets not stopping the second kick but did not think for a minute that this is how FIL would deal with it.

OP posts:
Snozberry · 28/12/2015 11:10

2 year olds do lots of things that are unacceptable, there are better ways to teach them how to behave than physically hurting them. If I understood the OP correctly her DH was about to intervene but FIL took over.

I can't get my head around trying to solve violence with more violence anyway.

diddl · 28/12/2015 11:11

"but did not think for a minute that this is how FIL would deal with it."

Of course he didn't.

But your husband is the parent & should have dealt with it.

Dipankrispaneven · 28/12/2015 11:11

It is NOT "a generational thing". I strongly suspect that I am as old as or older than your FIL, and I would never contemplate doing such a thing - nor would DH, my siblings, or any of my friends.

elfycat · 28/12/2015 11:11

Maybe it is old-school to use this kind of demonstration, but since we're talking about the old-school where men were allowed to punch the crap out of their wives IMO this 'excuse' must be used with extreme caution.

FIL smacked my then 2 year old for being nothing more than a boundary-testing 2 year old. DH saw my fist curl I have very instant reactions to some things; being assaulted myself and seeing my child assaulted amongst them and took me out of the room. He went back to explain that we do not hit, and FIL was not to do it again.

He hasn't done it again. I'm NC with him now (controlling bully) and DH and the DDs are LC. DH knows that if DDs report a smack by FIL to me I will involve SS and have all contact stopped.

It is not an overreaction. His family are excusing his behaviour which is another red flag. WTF? 'a lot on his plate' so it's OK to kick a child while a parent is there and happy to deal with it another way... bullying piece of shite.

GoblinLittleOwl · 28/12/2015 11:12

Yes, Calzone, I agree with you.

I can see the grandfather's reason, but he did not reciprocate in a measured, controlled way:
'If you kick me again I will kick you back and you will see how it hurts.'

Were either of them wearing shoes?

Why did the father not physically restrain his son, and tell him forcibly not to kick?

Was the child punished reproved for kicking an adult?

BathtimeFunkster · 28/12/2015 11:12

I guess he would be pretty appalled if you said that you don't agree with adults kicking and then gave him a bloody great kick in the shins.

I guess he would think that wasn't the same because the OP would not be kicking him back.

He let the child kick him (again) and then kicked back to show him that it hurts and it's not a nice thing to do.

He wasn't being a bully, he didn't kick him in anger, he was trying to teach him something he needs to learn.

Sure, those methods are not popular those days, but I suspect they are/were effective in terms of stopping undesirable behaviour.

Shins bruise easily. How are FIL's shins? Elderly people can get really nasty bruises on their shins that take ages to heal.

Westfacing · 28/12/2015 11:13

Kicking a toddler hard enough to leave a bruise is surely not an appropriate way to teach a lesson to a two-year old.

Presumably FIL had shoes on, and gave a hard kick, rather than pushing him away with his foot.

He could have broken the child's leg - I'm astounded at those who are criticizing a two-year child and sympathising with the FIL!