DP just punched me - what should i do?

[zogzag]

DP has a drink problem, although he won't admit it. He drinks every day, probably about 10 units. If I can get him to stop drinking it is only for a matter of a few days then he starts again.

Every so often, he gets really unpleasant and sometimes violent. He is probably violent about 2 or 3 times a year although the worst it has ever been before now is that he has slapped me once and pushed me once when I was pregnant hard enough to floor me.

I am not pregnant any more (I had the baby, was fine after he pushed me) and today he was moody again. We had a bit of an argument about what to watch on tv - a stupid argument that wasn't about anything serious and shouldn't make someone angry enough to get violent. Anyway, it started with him calling me a fucking bitch and pushing me out the way. I pushed back and then after he hit me with open hand I hit him back - I don't want to be some meek battered wife who lets her arsehole partner hit her and plays victim. So then he said 'go on then, hit me again', a couple of times, quite aggressively. So I punched him. And he punched me back, hard. I have a lump on the side of my face where he punched me and somehow, bleeding scratches on my hand. He has no marks on him (I guess I didn't hit him as hard as he hit me).

He claims he never hit me apart from the punch after I hit him unprovoked. This is absolutely not true - I have never hit him, ever, without being hit first. The worst I have ever done is push him away when he has been looming over me, shouting in my face. He says he doesn't feel safe around me and that I am not safe to look after our children (i am a sahm). I am aware he is gaslighting me.

I know this makes him sound awful. It doesn't happen often and we have 3 small children. Our relationship is generally good and I would say that apart from these episodes he is respectful of me. I think the violence is probably connected to the alcohol but he won't stop drinking. Please help - I don't know what to do. If this were happening to someone else I would say definitely ltb but it is not someone else... In the past have made our relationship continuing dependent on him cutting back on the alcohol but it never lasts long...

I need your advice - my children are young and it's a big deal to end things... it all looks very dysfunctional written down though.

Could we all just STOP?

One sentence in my pp is a bit out of sorts...will reword it...

You are pretty much advocating that op stay in a relationship where she has been hit, while at her most vulnerable (while pregnant). That same man has hit their child.

You would know, as a SW, that this disclosure, along with what op has said about her husband & his penchant for violence towards her & her (at the time) unborn baby, that this is a safe guarding issue & is reportable.

Yet you seem happy to encourage the op not to listen & to carry on as is. Yet you also admit that you haven't (or hadn't) even read the thread!!!

Afternoon folks. Just popping by with one last plea to get this thread back on track. If it descends into a bunfight we'll have to delete it, which seems really unfair on the OP who came here looking for advice. Regardless of whether or not she has left the thread could we ask everyone to keep any further posts strictly relevant to the OP's original question of what she should do, as we seem to have veered off an a bit of a tangent. Hopefully she's still checking in and reading the thread.

Agreed Iona

Ah you come late to the party Offred

Party? Fucking party?

OP there is a lot of advice and support here for you on this thread but if you feel you would like to engage with posters more it might be a good idea to start a new thread under a different name and, hopefully, posters will be able to advise further.

We understand that change takes time. None of your decisions are set in stone, you can change your mind at any time. Take care.

Backing Iona's plea. Can I point out that there is a difference between respecting someone's decision to take a course of action with which you disagree, and advocating staying in an unsafe situation. I haven't seen Nina or anyone else say that OP should stay with her partner. But she has choices about her course of action, and the fact that she started a thread asking for advice doesn't negate her right to choose. She knows her own life, and the rest of us don't. She believes this is the right course of action right now. Criticising and giving doomsday scenarios about her DCs being removed and her carried out in a body bag are unhelpful and possibly damaging as they may dissuade her from returning for support.

Fwiw, I am a qualified social worker too.

I've had to sit on my hands and bite my lip.
I've read some utter shite on this board, but it's easy to spot and weed it out when it's not you needing help and support.
Well said Faire.

This thread shouldn't be about posters' self proclaimed credentials or banging a personal drum, or at least it shouldn't be - it's to support and help zogzag
I'm ashamed at how it's been hijacked and derailed (but not at all surprised because I've seen the exact same thing before)

Zog I hope you're doing OK.
There is a lot of time on MN, for people who're in your current situation. Whether you need to offload, need gentle step by step support, advice, or just to write so you can try and work things through.
Don't be a stranger, I hope this new year brings you more comfort

Zog. I don't post on this often but in case you're still reading. My exH was/is an alcoholic and had violent rages. I worried about ending it and his access to DC as I always felt I could keep an eye on him here. I took my time in the end, ending the relationship and at times took a lot of stick on here. I think it was about a year from my first post on here until he finally moved out. The children at safer with him gone. He hasn't gone for access/having them overnight. He hasn't even once taken them out of the house, he just comes and visits them here. Financially we are ok, still finalising the divorce but we manage. Eldest dd, who was 3 when he left, still says things like 'daddy was very grumpy when he lived here. He shouted and scared me. But now he doesn't so I'd rather we don't see him so often and he is happy then he lived here and was grumpy'. She's now 6 and still remembers that. DTs were just 1 when he left and all they know is a dad who pops in every week or so for a couple of hours and isn't grumpy and doesn't shout or scare them.
What I'm trying to say is that ending the relationship doesn't have to happen now. I know everyone tells you it should but it took me a year and it was right for me that it did. I knew exH enough to know when I needed to be careful and yes I did heed the advice on here. I did contact Women's Aid, and through them, without contacting the police, they gave me details of a refuge to make an escape plan with. They also advised calling 101 (non emergency police line) and just advising them that if I ever called 999 to respond ASAP. I never did that, but I did set up with a very good friend that if I texted her name twice in a text she was to call the police immediately. Bless her, she didn't switch her phone off until he had moved out.
So, I would honestly advise - call women's aid they are amazing. Start the freedom programme if you can. And take baby steps to protect yourself - best wishes

Thanks all for your concern and your messages.

Dp is still here but he hasn't drunk since he hit me and says he won't drink any more. This is a big deal for him, especially last night at a party where everyone else was drinking. He is also going to go to counselling. He is reluctant to move out because he is worried then he will have no chance of saving our relationship.

I haven't made a firm decision about what to do yet but I think for now I am going to see how things go with him still in the house. I suppose some of you would say I am waiting until he hits me again and you may be right but the not drinking is a new approach, I am going to give it and the counselling a chance.

I do know something about children at risk and I honestly don't think my dc are. that is not me minimising, it is my opinion after careful consideration. Obviously if I thought my children were at all at risk of violence he would be straight out the door. However, I found your observations about gaslighting very enlightening and I will be changing my approach in future to my dd expressing negative opinions.

I appreciate the time you have all taken to support me at what has been a horrible time; I know the intention was to help, even when the thread got a bit heated - this is an emotive subject and of course the consequences of dv can be horrific. I have read all of your opinions and considered all advice.

Thanks again

Zog I'm so pleased you've come back. I'm sorry your thread descended into a bun fight - not exactly an example of MN at it's best.

Only you can decide what sort of future you and your DC will have. If you say that not drinking is a big deal then who is anyone to argue with that? But please, above all, stay safe. Please. For you and for your DC.

Please prepare for "an absolutely worst case scenario". Start squirrelling money away into a separate account. Put some spare clothes and toiletries together for you and the kids, keep them hidden and keep them safe. Know where your documents and passports are so that you can grab them if need be. Put he number for women's aid in your phone, which you could try to keep fully charged at all times. You don't need to make any grand plans or anything, just little actions that might help IF you need them. Personally I believe that, if you have everything prepared and in place, you won't need it.

I wish you all the best. At least by giving up drinking and agreeing to going to counselling, he is showing some appreciation of what he has done. But be careful.

I'm relieved to read that you're OK, zog, and that you appear to have initiated some meaningful dialogue with your partner, but there can be a long waiting list for NHS therapeutic services and if he doesn't intend to source a counsellor through BACP, I suggest you insist that he attends AA meetings as a matter of urgency.

With regard to your assertion that your dc are not at risk, from reading one of your earlier posts it seems that your childhood experiences are not dissimilar to those being experienced by your dc. In effect, your dcs childhoods are a replicated version of your own, with all of the emotional harm and damage that you sustained being visited on them and this insidious process is how abuse comes to be handed down through generation.

I think a man punching a woman means there is no barrier, no stop valve and it feels too serious for me to go back to normal It seems to me that you are endeavouring to establish a new 'normal' which will enable you to gloss over the fact that you have been subjected to physical abuse because, in common with many other intelligent, competent, and capable women, you fear being demeaned if it were to become common knowledge that you are a victim of dv.

I don't want to be some meek battered wife who lets her arsehole partner hit her and plays victim I have never hit him, ever, without being hit first I admire your determination to stand up for yourself but, unless you're trained in martial arts, it's unlikely that you're capable of overpowering a fully grown adult male. Furthermore, if you are able to land a lucky blow that incapacitates him before he can do you any serious harm, you may find yourself in the dock as self-defence can be hard to prove if you haven't got a mark on you and there's no history of abuse in police and/or your medical records.

I understand why you are giving him a chance to prove that he can change his ways and I sincerely hope he succeeds. However, my concern for your safety is not alleviated as many men like him are guests of Her Majesty because, as the slogan has it, ONE PUNCH CAN KILL and I urge you, once again, to call the police if you have any reason to believe that you are at risk of more violence at his hands.

You'll be in my thoughts and I hope you'll update this thread from time to time as I know that others will be similarly concerned for your safety and the welfare of your little dc.

Hi Zog, thanks for your update - very glad you posted. Just to say, regarding Child Protection/risk, that DV is a risk to children irrespective of whether the violence is directed at them or another family member. It's interesting that your DP isn't going to drink any more. I guess time will tell whether he is committed to sustained change and seeking appropriate help, or whether it is a tactical move to avoid a break up. Either way, I wish you and your children the best and there is always support here on MN, even if it occasionally takes a very strange form!

zog, glad you came back after the derailing. I think goddess is right. & sadly the doubt will always be there if he gets angry, or drinks at anytime. Only you will know if his promise to stop drinking & counselling will actually happen & be maintained in the long term, & change him.
The fact that he hasn't moved out & had time to consider the error of his ways, is IMO, a mistake,
He has got away with it. Why will he "have no chance of saving our relationship". ?

Now is the time to write down your boundary. Is your boundary the first time he touches alcohol, the first time he gets drunk, the first time he gets drunk and verbally assaults you, the first time he gets drunk and gets physical, it was just a push not a hit so that's ok?

It's all too easy for time to dull what's happened and for this to escalate again. You must set yourself and him clear boundaries and stick to them.

Secondly, now would also be a good time to do your research and put aside emergency resources for an emergency exit if needed.

I can easily imagine a situation where there's a landmark occasion and he lays on the guilt or just goes ahead with the drinking because it's unfair/looks odd/deserves to/drinking is no longer an issue.

You need to be ready for the worst whilst hoping for the best. Good luck

Hi Zog, I've got a very similar thread running in relationships after a similar experience a few days ago. Last time this happened to me I tried to support him not drinking and it seemed to be working for a while. My cycle lasted approx 6 weeks before the tension started building again. I had to report him a few nights ago after the violence got out of control and was witnessed by my children who tried to intervene. That can never happen again.

It's really hard to be where you are now. Please listen to the other posters who have advised having an escape route just in case.

Fwiw since he doesn't live here we have spoken more honestly than ever. He is accessing help for himself and the kids. I have said I will not take him back for at least a year if at all. My house is calm. My kids are happy. We don't have the background tension. They still have a relationship with their Dad and while ever he is not drinking that will continue. I can only let them see him treat me with respect.

I wish you luck. I really hope this is his rock bottom and turning point. Stay strong. You know how to access help if you need to.

You say if you thought your children were at all at risk of violence, you'd leave but you said earlier that ' I don't think the children are at risk. He has smacked one of them once though (I know, red flag) and I was very angry with him for it.'.

So he has already smacked one of your children.

I wish you well OP but I do think you need to plan an escape route just in case.

I would like to recommend AA and Alanon.
He could start attending meetings now, and would have a much better chance of recovery.
The consequences are large for him at the moment, but when the bruise has gone, and life gets on top of him, he will drink, if he is an alcoholic.
You could give Alanon a call, and speak to others/meet others who have a family member with an alcohol problem and learn how they cope with it.

If nothing changes (just words/ideas, no action, 'waiting for counseling') then nothing will change.

Echo another poster who says, the children absolutely are at risk, they will not develop in the same way as children who are growing up in a nurturing household.

Hi zog. Just to give an alternative viewpoint: my partner stopped drinking, completely. He also started going to the AA and made some other changes - getting into fitness, meditating etc. We are giving our relationship a chance, and whilst it's a long and continually bumpy road, I'm glad we are. It's now over 20 months since he drank, that was when the violent incident occurred. It takes a lot of coming back from, as it's such a violation of trust, but I am giving it a go.
From my experience my advice would be for him to start counselling ASAP. A PP was right about NHS waiting times. If you can afford it, find a BACP accredited counsellor and pay privately - it costs but there's little more important. If it's difficult financially, some employers have a scheme whereby they will pay for 6-8 sessions and only the counsellor knows the issues, your partner could check if his work do this. Alternatively he might like to go to the AA, it's a huge support especially in the early days. Whether he dies or not I highly recommend Al Anon for you, it's such a great support for families and friends of people with alcohol issues, and totally non judgemental. I would also recommend having at least one RL friend to whom you can tell everything. It's really useful to remember the extent of what he did and have someone who is there for you, supporting you in whatever course of action you decide on. Keep posting here, we will all try to keep emotions down and think of you.

Would you consider contacting women's aid for yourself now?

He is reluctant to move out because he is worried then he will have no chance of saving our relationship.

So he's already gone back on what he said. No surprise there.

Ironically, moving out would have been your best chance at saving your relationship as he would have to make those changes if he wanted you back. I would say at least a year showing that he can stay off alcohol, get the counselling and show that he is still a supportive father and caring husband even when he is not getting everything his way.

Staying is harder. It's now likely that your thought process will change and you will find that you are changing your behaviour to meet his needs in order to avoid flash points.

Has he taken 100% responsibility for his actions, or does he still blame you?

Has he recognised the damage he is doing to his children or is he persuading you that they don't sense the atmosphere?

Has he admitted that he is in control of his body and that he chose to punch you because he wanted to?

These are the harsh truths that he has to face up to if he's going to change. If he really, really wanted to save the relationship he would have respected your decision and done what you asked. He would have moved out to give you space and time and to prove that he is committed to change.

He doesn''t want to because that's inconvenient to him. He is still putting himself first. It is still all about him and he is showing no signs of even wanting to change, let alone getting on with it.

The drinking; how long does he usually go between drinks? I think that will be the first habit to creep back so be ready for it. It may be secretly at first if he has promised to give it up. Then it will be 'just one beer' and you will be too scared to challenge him because you wil fear his violence. So you will say nothing and convince yourself that it was just the one.

Sorry, OP, I know it sounds pessimistic but your best hope was getting him to leave first and then work on himself and that's just been blown out of the water.

Did you really have any choice? If you said, 'No, I still want you to leave' would he have gone? Or did you agree to let him stay because you are actually powerless over that decision?

If you would still rather he left, we can help with advice there. All the best OP. Keep posting if it helps and remember you can always come back at any time and you will get support.

And read Lundy bancroft's book 'why does he do that?'

Don't put too much emphasis on his drinking as the cause of his behaviour. Abusive people abuse because they believe they are entitled to do it. In this case the alcohol may be lowering his inhibitions but the problem is that he believes he is entitled to hit you.

If and when it happens again, we will all be here ready to help. Never feel that you're beyond asking for help. You're not ready yet, and that's ok, but if you do feel ready in future just give us a shout and the MN massive will be at your back.

He will be able to force you to stay in a relationship you don't want for some time if he stays when you want him to leave.

If he leaves when you want him to leave this shows a commitment to listening to and respecting you which is vital if the relationship continues.

However, why does he think you, or anyone, would want him when he is a violent and abusive man with alcohol problems? Why does he think he is entitled to a relationship at all?

Why is nobody bringing up the OP for being violent too?

Just because your husband taunted you telling you to fight back doesn't mean you have to! Just walk away.

Not all victims of DV are 'meek', some of them are strong women capable of defending themselves by walking away.

I've seen my alcoholic Gran make these exact taunts to her long suffering sober husband. Eventually he caved and hit her back. Then she hit him back, then they both began regularly physically fighting eachother.

He is reluctant to move out because he is worried then he will have no chance of saving our relationship.

Which means he wants the same old, same old, and is not willing to put in the effort if you don't accept to stay.

In your shoes, I would tell him that his ONLY chance at saving the relationship is to move out, and prove to you that he can sober up under his own initiative. And hold him to it.