Think DD has just destroyed relationship with DH her dad. Final straw.

[Facefacts]

After a long rocky period with DD 17, I thought things were getting better. Again, tonight, DD determined to get her own way. Wanted boyfriend to come over we said no as I had to be away all day and overnight, husband had to leave later as working away. So after I left mid afternoon she has massive argument with poor DH who is already having counselling (partly from previous rocky period as well as other things). She is so unsympathetic and uncaring and verbally very attacking. DH in pieces, DD just continued attack. And flounced off to boyfriends saying would be back for 11. Just arriving back now. Refused lift back and DH couldn't face scene if just went to fetch her. He now has two hour drive and has to be up early. He's broken and I'm fuming with her. She has a brilliant social life. Saw boyfriend 2 or 3 times in week. Nightclub Friday and friend stayed over Saturday. Don't know how this is going to go but we have been on edge of throwing her out before for stunts like this. Is this what we have to do to save DH from total breakdown. When she decides she is doing something there is no compromise, no care of the impact on others. It seems the more understanding and caring we are the more she takes. Someone please give me a plan to change this before she throws away a lovely home and family.

Are you and DH empathic to your DD? Are you compassionate towards her?

Also consider giving her starflower oil or oil of primrose for hormone balancing. Also general B vitamin daily.

What I would like to know is why is she is so unhappy at home? Is she having her emotional needs met? Does she feel treasured? Do you have hear to hearts? What things does she struggle with?

Also you say your other child has ASD. It's often genetic. Is there any chance your DH could also have ASD? Resulting in him struggling to deal with teen behaviour. Lastly there is the possibility your DD may have ASD but as a girl would present very differently. There's lots of info available on line.

Marz not sure if you are still reading but I have been thinking about your post today. Italian, in the UK (or Ireland) if you tried to kick out your 17 year old for going out when you told her not to, you would be under massive pressure to change your mind. There are people on here whose children are regularly using drugs, smashing up the house and beating up their parents, and there is nowhere for those children to go.

I have come up with my own plan. If either of my kids were threatening or aggressive and actually violent to me and were close to being adults yet they would not move out or it was not appropriate for them to. We are in the process of thinking about converting the garage into a den for the kids, it has facilities, space, window, electricity etc, could be made nice and cosy as a den for kids for now with insulation and heating etc. And if ever they were so violent one of them could not live with us, I would offer to convert the den into a reverse granny flat and they could move in there!

oh Marz crossed with you!

Maryz very good advice, all but the last line... "She cannot argue if you walk away." Because she has already proven that that is not the case.

My neighbour's DD has managed to get a place in a top university, she is a very talented girl but that that doesn't clear the fact that her busy social life involves a lot of drugs and alcohol use since she was 15/16 most of the time she spends at home she is either drunk or hangover, and yes, she brings a lot of strange men home when she has been out and drunk.

My neighbour think it's just being young and enjoying life. I think she is seriously going off rails but each to their own.

Facefacts I am going to leave the thread now because I am finding this all rather unpleasant. I am very sorry for you, Facefacts, and all the horrible and unnecessary and ignorant comments you have received here. Totally unwarranted.

I wish you all the best with your daughter, husband and wider family and hope some of the advice on the thread will be of us to you all.

Bless you.

I think what Maryz is saying (and do correct me if I'm wrong, Maryz), is that the parents need to not escalate the situation. Unless a child has a medical condition, I do find it very rare for arguments or disagreements to escalate to violence if the parents truly try to defuse the situation from the off.

It certainly sounds as if OP and her husband create drama and escalate situations, so a coping strategy that doesn't involve bewailing why a 17 year old won't consistently tiptoe around her father while being blamed for his PTSD does sound wise.

Maryz speaking a lot of sense... lots of victim blaming going on elsewhere! I know I said I was done but OP I do agree with Maryz... as I mentioned before I chose the other night not to speak to my dd and it did work, she was apologetic (the next day) after being a total pain. But it was hard. I hated doing it and when my mum did it to me I hated it. But sometimes you just don't want to engage any more with a child (or adult) who is just being very annoying or hurtful.

Sorry cross posed Maryz... what does ... the old oxygen in an aeroplane analogy... mean?

Yes, we agree.... I think you talk a lot of sense.... I've just been on the end of a lot of parent blaming having a difficult child and it is very frustrating when people who don't parent your particular child think they know it all... I know that is most definitely not you! Ironically my 'difficult' child is the birth child and my pretty-much-plain-sailing-but-very moany-child is adopted and is the one we had extensive parenting classes about (I've had 8 parenting classes in total!).

I'm afraid I think there is a lot of projection from a lot of posters on this thread. None of us are privy to the dynamics in this family, or the backstory.

OP, whatever the issues, and the causes, you need professional help. Have you seen the GP and discussed obtaining some? Were CAMHS involved when your DD was smaller?

OP, I don't know if you're still reading. You sound genuinely confused about what you should be doing here. And to be honest, you sound conflicted about who you want to help - your DD or your DH, as if you can only choose one. I agree that some posters have suggested you be tougher, others that you step back and it does sound contradictory. That's because they are just techniques, really.

If you look at the broader picture, it's not so confusing. There are ways that healthy family relationships are supposed to work - and how tough or gentle you are isn't as important as getting that healthy dynamic right. All posters here are in agreement that the dynamic in your family is wrong. At the moment.

You don't have to be super mum, but if you are serious about parenting your DD for the remaining years of her childhood - and there are precious few - you need to get help. Not super-nanny help, but professional family counselling help. If you can all recognise some truths, agree on whose responsible for what, get some agenda for moving forward, it won't be a minefield. But it will be scary, because it will quite possibly mean your DH and you facing up to the problems within yourselves and between you as well.

Be prepared for a good family therapist to zero in pretty quickly on DH's mental problems/associated behavioural traits and be prepared to look honestly at how that is really affecting other members of the family. It won't be easy but if it helps, it will be worth it. Because you are really, really in crisis at the moment.

You say your DD is no ordinary teenager - perhaps she isn't. She could say the same thing about you as parents. This is no ordinary family problem and other ordinary parents are not going to be able to help you much. You know I have problems with your attitude but I hope for your daughter's sake you take the trouble to move on now. But don't go round in circles - I think you can see it's destroying your DD as well as your husband -if in fact it is what's destroying him.

Thank you domino. Manage to get her to have multivitamins sometimes. Will look into eve primrose and starflower.
Try and have heart to hearts and give her emotional support. She has a bit of history though for using this to try and make me feel sorry for her as reasons why she can't do something, or has to do something I don't want her to do. I can end up feeling manipulated and pressured when I'm just trying to be understanding. Sad but true
Still try to do it though but in small doses with an exit strategy. Can see why you mention possible ASD in relation to DH but if it is, it is only just. He was always less stressy with the kids than I was until things became really full difficult to deal with.

Incidentally, as the mother and sibling of people with ASD, I think the stress levels are completely misunderstood by outsiders. My son was found not to have PDA because I was too calm in his presence by an experienced paed - his school find me chronically anxious. Autism creates anxiety for the family, as well as the autistic person. We live in a neurotypical world. It's hard to be so differently wired, and hard to love and protect and empower someone thus wired. And siblings can get lost in the shuffle, I'm afraid.

And one of the things that has stuck with me from an ASD parenting course was that extreme behaviour is always an attempt to communicate. While you have to set limits and be the adult in the situation, you also need to decode what is being conveyed. Maybe have a think about what is going so badly wrong with your DD? Talk to the Autistic Society about support for siblings - perhaps she needs some.

Those are just ideas. I can't know what is happening for any of you. I do know that this too shall pass. Hang on in there.

"She has a bit of history though for using this to try and make me feel sorry for her as reasons why she can't do something, or has to do something I don't want her to do. I can end up feeling manipulated and pressured when I'm just trying to be understanding."

This is behaviour she will have learned from her father.

Sorry, that was supposed to be My son was found, by an experienced paed, not to have PDA because I was too calm in his presence

Ah yes Oh sorry, you know when the oxygen masks come down on an aeroplane we are all told to put on our own masks first before helping children or others who may need help. I say that a lot to people, it's very important in adoption training that I did to look after yourself, otherwise you have nothing left to give out. Yes, I do fight for dd, I always do, with school and anywhere I need to. We invest so much in our kids. I've found with dd less telly helps, there are so many little things that can make a difference!

She has a bit of history though for using this to try and make me feel sorry for her as reasons why she can't do something, or has to do something I don't want her to do. I can end up feeling manipulated and pressured when I'm just trying to be understanding. Sad but true
Still try to do it though but in small doses with an exit strategy

OP I may be reading this wrong, but are you saying that you deliberately limit the support you give and heart to hearts you have with your DD because when she plays the "poor little me" card, you feel pressured and manipulated?

Sheba you can't know that. You can suggest it, but you do not know this family, you do not know what their dynamic is. None of us know, and attacking the OP's parenting, family and husband like this on bugger all basis is not about to help anyone. No responsible healthcare professional would dream of doing so, let alone leaping to such vehement conclusions on such flimsy evidence, and they are trained and qualified to make such assessments... so what makes you adamant you can do better?

Sheba. Except her dad doesn't do that. So no. I'm sure there are lots of reason she does it, including us not being wise enough and letting her get away with it, wanting more attention, jealousy.

Blythe you say the OP sounds confused... she came on here for support and received quite a lot of unkind and cruel comments. No wonder she is confused. I think she is not so much confused as looking for help.

I hope she will get the proper professional help she needs, and not the amateur psycho analysis on here, at least on that much we can agree.