Think DD has just destroyed relationship with DH her dad. Final straw.

[Facefacts]

After a long rocky period with DD 17, I thought things were getting better. Again, tonight, DD determined to get her own way. Wanted boyfriend to come over we said no as I had to be away all day and overnight, husband had to leave later as working away. So after I left mid afternoon she has massive argument with poor DH who is already having counselling (partly from previous rocky period as well as other things). She is so unsympathetic and uncaring and verbally very attacking. DH in pieces, DD just continued attack. And flounced off to boyfriends saying would be back for 11. Just arriving back now. Refused lift back and DH couldn't face scene if just went to fetch her. He now has two hour drive and has to be up early. He's broken and I'm fuming with her. She has a brilliant social life. Saw boyfriend 2 or 3 times in week. Nightclub Friday and friend stayed over Saturday. Don't know how this is going to go but we have been on edge of throwing her out before for stunts like this. Is this what we have to do to save DH from total breakdown. When she decides she is doing something there is no compromise, no care of the impact on others. It seems the more understanding and caring we are the more she takes. Someone please give me a plan to change this before she throws away a lovely home and family.

Cote, how do you know it will never come to that? By your own posts, you will have no choice in the matter if your daughter 'forces your hand' and makes you kick her out...so given you will have no choice or control in whether you throw out your irritating teenager, how can you be sure it will never happen?

If I were you, I would just take this opportunity to say, "Yes, daft thing I said there. I retract it." Personally I'll respect you for that.

Er if you are not allowed out...you are grounded!

You may wish you 17 year old to stay in, you may feel it's better but I don't think you can insist and then expect an almost adult to accept that.

If she was 18 which really can't be far away the law here in the uk does not allow deprivation of liberty, I.e. Keeping an adult in without a legal process. It wouldnt matter if it was for her own good (doing well in exams, needing sleep)

Has your dp actually been diagnosed with PTSD or is this something that you have pieced together yourself (which you do suggest?)

It seems to me that you are trying to hang on for dear life to your husband and you fear losing him more than your daughter.

You say on your other thread that he feels taken advantage of, including financially. I thought that was an odd thing to say. What does he mean? We don't have children for them to show gratitude. Parenting is pretty thankless much of the time.

He seems to expect more from her than she can give.

You are very sympathetic towards him, more than I would be I'm afraid. His behaviour seems over the top.

Btw I have two dc with complex needs and a husband who couldn't cope ( and left) and I do understand the strain and pressure of the behaviour you describe.

You are reading a different thread to me then Cote. Seriously.

There is more to parenting than laying down the law and being respected. I really despair that the attitude that teens who don't instantly conform are somehow nasty and abusive is so common.

"She has to stay in because it would, in some explicable way, help her father. Who she has an everlasting debt to because she did something dreadful when she was younger, and she's never going to be acceptable now unless she's Perfect "

I have not read another thread by the OP so might be missing part of the story, but that is not what I'm getting out of this thread at all.

What I am getting is that this is a teenage girl who is failing at school and seems to have no parental authority and no expectation that she might need to study at some point or other and do better at school. She has had this "boyfriend" for all of one week but already saw him 2-3 times in this time. Went out clubbing on Friday night. Had a friend stay over Saturday night, until Sunday afternoon. And now she has to either have the "boyfriend" come stay over or she has to go stay at his house... why exactly?

This sort of life is not normal for a teenager. I don't know a single teenager who would have such an active night life, stay over at a boyfriend's or girlfriend's home (especially after just a week together), not to mention scream abuse at her parents and break stuff in the house in anger.

How the hell does a 17-year-old get into a club anyway?

"Er if you are not allowed out...you are grounded!"

Er no, if you are told to stay at home after a very busy weekend out clubbing etc because there is school tomorrow morning, that is just normal life.

Teenagers don't have a right to be out every night. In families I know, that is. I don't know how it is in yours.

I don't know a single teenager who would have such an active night life

Any teens you know (because all of them live in similar households to your idea of acceptable, apparently) are probably too scared of being thrown out to have a social life.

"I would just take this opportunity to say, "Yes, daft thing I said there. I retract it." Personally I'll respect you for that."

Why on Earth would I retract something I believe is the right strategy to reign in a teenager who sounds completely out of control?

Personally, I would respect you for acknowledging that you were wrong to claim I said it would be "better to have your daughter homeless and working as a prostitute on the streets than put up with any lip from her at home" but I am not holding my breath for that one.

Er no, if you are told to stay at home after a very busy weekend out clubbing etc because there is school tomorrow morning, that is just normal life.

Fuck sake. You are missing the point despite it being clearly explained several times.

The DD wasn't told to stay in because of school. She was told she had to be at home because *it would make her father feel better".

Who can live like that? Who can be constantly expected to alter their behaviour for the benefit of their parent and never be annoyed about it?

Honestly Cote, I find it really sad that your view of teenagers is such a negative one.

BlytheandSebastian, terrific posts. Also, OTheHugeManatee.

You hold grudges, OP, and you keep score, and you blame, and you expect gratitude, and you expect DD to 'mind' her father.

You and DH need to go to family therapy and explore what the word 'enmeshed' means in the case of your family, and how to un-mesh.

No Liz, teenagers I know have been raised in the sort of family environment where it would be unthinkable to be violent towards one's parents, let alone go out to clubs illegally at the age of 17 and expect to be out every night because they do whatever the hell they want.

Teenagers I know study and do well at school, as well as do their chosen sports and have fun in age-appropriate ways. They don't stay over at a 'boyfriend's house after a week and they certainly don't go to clubs on Friday nights.

I would say that this might be a cultural difference, but I know quite a few English families who would be agog at the behaviour and expectations of a non-interrupted good time of OP's DD, not to mention the "Oh that's just teenagers. It's totally normal for them to go out every night, stay at boyfriends whenever they like, and hurl abuse at their parents." attitude of some people on this thread.

"The DD wasn't told to stay in because of school. She was told she had to be at home because *it would make her father feel better"."

Unless I missed something, she was told to be home earlier so her father could leave knowing she is safe and sound at home before he leaves for a 2-hour drive.

She wasn't told to spend the night at home to make dad feel better.

DC are not meant to be grateful, to care for their parents or to put their parents first. Nor are they responsible for their parents mental health.

Do you have a distant family member that DD could go and stay with, a good mix of love and boundaries may help her not become like her parents

"Who can live like that? Who can be constantly expected to alter their behaviour for the benefit of their parent and never be annoyed about it?"

Are we reading different threads? On the one I'm reading, OP says:

We've dropped our plans for her convenience... She can see boyfriend any day this week.

She has a brilliant social life. Saw boyfriend 2 or 3 times in week. Nightclub Friday and friend stayed over Saturday.

So we should just let her get everything she asks for? We say yes more than 9 times out of 10 and ask her to consider us one night. She can see boyfriend another night. She had only just said goodbye to the friend she had staying over when she started on DH.

Well Cote, if you do indeed believe that the right strategy to cope with an annoying teenager is to sling her out and watch her sell her body on the streets, by all means don't retract your statements. But don't pretend you didn't say them. If you would rather kick your daughter out and watch her become a sex worker than put up with some bad behaviour from her at home, you have indeed made your choice, even if you like to frame it as her 'forcing your hand'.

Delightful.

Posters can see your comments and decide for themselves which of us has interpreted them correctly.

Oh, and "[Teenagers I know] don't stay over at a 'boyfriend's house after a week and they certainly don't go to clubs on Friday nights."

Ha. Ah ha. Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha....

mathanxiety

I'm glad you are having fun, Sheba.

We must have very different ideas about raising children and family values, but that's OK. To each their own and all that

Tell me: Is it legal for a 17-year-old to go to clubs in the UK?

Cote, those teenagers that you describe probably don't have the kind of emotionally abusive parents that this thread is painting a picture of. They are probably not made to feel guilty about things that are beyond their control. They are probably not made to feel guilty about behaving in a totally normal teenager way.

so her father could leave knowing she is safe and sound at home

That is an absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary thing to ask of a 17 year old though. Especially since they trust her enough to have her stay home alone, use buses, see her boyfriend, go clubbing etc.

I would be much more worried about my DD when she was out clubbing than I would be on a Sunday night round her boyfriends. This situation was solely about pandering to the OPs DH, yet again and the DD is sick of it.

And when you grow up with the level of manipulation that is at play here, why is it so surprising that you would then turn to manipulation and other tactics to be heard? The DD is following the example she has been set...and look how its turning out. Breaking a door and hurling abuse doesn't come close to threatening to commit suicide or even just leave your family because they do not act the way you like.

The bottom line is, a 17 year old cannot be held responsible for a dynamic of this magnitude. She did not create it. She is not in control of it.

This poor girl needs some love and some boundaries. In equal measure.

That is the OP's opinion of the situation Cote.

I am inclined to think there is a large chunk of denial and bias in there.

This poor girl needs some love and some boundaries. In equal measure.

Yes, Cote, I guess we do. I would not dream of slinging my own child out on the streets to become a sex worker just because she was being a pain in the arse at home. But if I did, I'd own the decision as my own rather than claiming helplessness.

What on earth have clubs in the UK got to do with it? Is it legal to streetwalk at 17 in whatever country you're from?

Much of the time she is fine but when she goes for it there is no stopping her and the intensity is frightening.

OP - you know who it is most scary for? Not you, not your DH, but your DD. The person you hold responsible for scaring you and your DH is the most scared of all. Intense, out of control emotions, that she cannot manage nor understand.

And she has no-one, absolutely no-one to tell her that it is OK, and that she will be alright, and that she will feel better.

Because you and her Dad are unwilling to support her, instead, allowing your own emotions to take over.

I'm sure there is a truckload a family baggage that has resulted in you and your DP being unwilling to parent the way that your DD so desperately needs. A reason why your DH was avoiding any kind of therapy for what has now been diagnosed as PTSD, apparently caused by several traumatic incidents, until a few weeks ago. A reason why you have blanked out memories and negative experiences in your life associated with your DD. A reason why your DD was so emotionally traumatised by her brothers ASD diagnosis. And a reason why you are unable to accept that your DD, who you have been responsible for since birth, needs her parents to be strong for her - no matter what that takes and who you have to involve - in order to give her the parenting she needs.

I hope your DD is able to break whatever cycle you and your DH have brought into your family and goes on in life to address and overcome the turmoil of emotions that her parents are doing nothing to help her understand.