Asperger's and relationships (again)

[MrsMiss]

I've been married for 10 years, and have four children, the youngest of whom is 3. Last year my husband was diagnosed with Asperger's. The psychiatrist said it was 'mild asperger's'. We'd waited a year for the diagnosis, and my dh refused to go for couples counselling until the diagnosis was made. In that time my mental health spiralled and I have had many points where I've felt at the end of my tether. I've been on anti-anxiety meds, and had counselling myself, and manage to drag myself to a place where I am now supposedly looking after myself.

I have good friends (none of whom know about the ASD), and have time away from the children (once a week I meet my friends for our 'sewing night' ) which is a big improvement on a couple of years ago where my life seemed to revolve around the young children, and I didn't have any time for myself.

We started seeing a relate counsellor in the Summer, but it wasn't great. We got lots of practical advice like maybe we could go on a weekend away, or ask for help blah blah blah… but nothing really addressing the issues within the relationship which are numerous.

Dh seems to think that the main problem is that we argue, and I shout and get angry. He would like to think we can compromise and have a rational discussion, but in truth, it is his way or nothing. He won't go out at all with other families or friends. He won't help out e.g. at the kids school, or cubs/beavers etc. It is hard to put across what it is like without it sounding like I'm being extremely unreasonable, wanting to have a certain life and having unrealistic expectations of him.

For me, I feel like I'm a single parent. He won't be part of a 'team'. He'll go out and buy presents for the children on his own, and arrange to do things with them on his own, for example when I'm out, but will have no part of 'sharing' anything as a family. He spends more time with our oldest daughter chatting and cooking etc than he does with me. I feel completely isolated, like a lodger in the house who has to serve all the people who live in the house, but otherwise keep out of the way and keep my thoughts and feelings to myself.

We've been on the same holiday for the last 10 years, we see one couple (his school friend and his wife) socially… I've carved out a new life with friends I've made through having the children, but dh won't have anything to do with them. He is rude to them - one husband of a friend asked if he'd like to join them (the other husbands) at a local pub quiz, and his flat response was 'no'.

When we initially got together he was very attentive and kind, and we were 'in love' and had the children in quick succession. Being pregnant 4 times has 'protected' me from the worst emotional problems if you like, because he has been 'on his best behaviour'. He did actually say that he couldn't cope if I was pregnant again. Now, he just doesn't speak to me. I feel that we job-share. Our responsibility is to look after the children, and we speak to share arrangements for the children. In the evening he can spend ours looking at videos and clips etc on his phone, and then will come to bed late. I try to carry on as normal, but am beyond lonely. I hate the constant atmosphere that he is oblivious to. He thinks if I'm not shouting, we're happy. I only shout out of complete exasperation, when I am completely worn down with his arguments, which are always logical and evidence-based and always right. Anything I say is just a waste of time.

We've been seeing a psychodynamic couples counsellor for a few months now, and it has been enlightening in some respects, but I'm just not sure she understands this asperger's thing. She sees it as a label, an unhelpful label, and thinks dh is no different from anyone else. That may be the case but he thinks he is different, and since he had the diagnosis it is as if all kindness and willingness to work together has evaporated, and I'm now supposed to accommodate what he calls his 'disability'. I've obviously tried the usual things - to communicate clearly, to be direct, to not expect him to want to be 'life and soul' of the party etc, but I can't cope with a life that is completely dictated by one person. I am trying to do my best for the children. I have supported them to join different groups and activities, to spend time with friends and other families even if I have to do it all on my own. Their friendships matter a lot to me, whereas I know dh wouldn't care if they never saw their friends.

I don't really know what I'm asking here, and I know that some people are going to tell me to leave him, and some people are going to say that I sound like a demanding monster. I wish I could get an objective view on whether I should continue to try to navigate through my emotions and the bleak loneliness and distress, and try to ignore every hope and dream I had of being a family and doing things together, or whether it would be a waste of my energy. I can't talk to people in real life about it all (he doesn't want them to know) and I worry that they wouldn't really understand anyway. I have times when I'd just like to walk away from it all. The children all show signs of similarity with dh, which makes it unbearable at times. I'm on egg-shells, dealing with tantrum after tantrum… just so lonely.

I am a very bruised Casandra stealth

I had just found the Cassies thread on OTBT too. I was hopeful I could use it since I couldn't use the DT site as DH (who stalks me on the internet) had found all my posts there and it led to a massive row. I was hoping OTBT may be harder for him to find...shame it disappeared.

I'm a Cassie, stealth. It would be better if we can post openly on the Relationships board, though, without being shouted down. There are people out there like MarkRuffalo who have come to a good resolution. We need to hear more from them, surely.

And we could have an agreement whereby if we shout "Teacakes!" or some such, one of us starts a more detailed or personal thread in OTBT. The question of cyberstalking and hacking by highly skilled dhs does have to be taken seriously however so it shouldn' t, imvho, be the same person starting threads. They might have cause to fear attack.

Yes, I'm a Cassie.

Otbt is not open to search engines, which was what was good about it.

I'm happy to start one in otbt, I have no faith in not being shouted at on relationships. I too use DT but miss the Cassie thread. DT is a bit open to the air and I need a cosy funny place as well on MN. And I don't feel I can swear on DT.

But I'm hopeless at being reliable and cutting and pasting wisdom or remembering when to start another. So if someone else could do that if I have forgotten, I'll go off and start one now. Called tea cakes for Cassandra...

Done. Open.

Ps, don't disagree re the relationships thread. However, having just seen some appalling behaviour today elsewhere on mn, don't trust it atm. Perhaps we should have a long term strategy? Like posting a thread on it and also the SEN board asking on it why people find our position hard to accept?

Yes, there is some appalling behaviour in evidence on MN today. So we may still get it in the neck.

Will join you laterz, Uriah.

I do agree about a long-term strategy. Maybe a shield wall like they show on "The Kingdom" >

I haven't read all your replies but I have Aspergers.

Normal counselling assumes that if 2 parties analyse their own behaviour and listen to each other's feelings (empathise) then things could get better. You need a counsellor who has experience with Autism because a different approach is needed.

I have AS and know other people with AS and we don't behave like your h! A NT partner might have to say something seemingly obvious like "Please could you sort out your music after baby has gone to sleep so that you can spend maximum time with her." The norm would be for the partner with AS to remember that and not repeat that behaviour in future. Refusing to do anything that they don't like is not behaviour from a spouse. (They might try to swap driving to karate for doing the dishes which is obviously normal )

I'm really sorry but I'd say that your problem is that your h is abusive rather than has AS. People with AS can be awesome - they don't lie, can be creative and interesting because they know lots about unusual topics.

here here enderwoman

My parents have aspergers. I hate it tbh. I would give up everything for them to be NT.

Just read the thread and I am the same as many others and had to go on anti-anxiety meds because of it. You just have to accept they will never be the people you want them to be, and do the things people do for each other. It is sad but you can't sacrifice yourself for them when they wouldn't do much to help you back.

You just have to accept they will never be the people you want them to be, and do the things people do for each other. It is sad but you can't sacrifice yourself for them when they wouldn't do much to help you back.

I was on antidepressants and felt so emotionally and socially isolated.

With my understanding of brain plasticity and behaviour I set to work.

Sorry, felt the need to respond to this. I seriously doubt your child has ASD if you managed to change his behaviour within a week.

ASD is a neurological disorder. You do not change the plasticity of the brain and "cure" ASD within a week. There is no cure for ASD. There are ways to increase awareness and promote empathy but they may not even be genuine; more like learned responses.

I don't have AS and I don't wish to speak for posters who do but (tentatively) as I understand it one of the reasons that the newer MN with SN board (which I do post on for non AS reasons) was asked for is that some of the posters with AS feel upset by threads about support with AS partners because it's basically just difficult to read about somebody finding someone who has the same condition as you do hard to live with. It reinforces all of the negative self talk and worries about being unlovable and never finding anyone who will understand and/or care. And yes there is some bitterness about people attributing dickhead personality traits to AS when they are actually just due to being a dickhead.

That's not to say the relationship support threads shouldn't exist. Just that I don't think it's fair to go onto the SEN threads, which are their safe space, and post there. If a person with AS wants to come and share their viewpoint on the thread, like enderwoman has, then they can still do so.

I don't know what you're referring to in your last para, BertieBotts? Obviously most of us have dc on the spectrum, so we do use the SN boards for that, like all MNers. We should be free to do that, shouldn't we?

Surely the "us and them" division is unreal? Where is the line? Who is to draw it?

Most of the time, what we get bashed about is the fact that we don't LTB - we don't just leave our relationships. Partly this is - often - because we have dc on the spectrum.

The views of MNers with AS are absolutely invaluable on these threads. I would've thought that that's obvious - and it can clearly be seen on this thread.

A poster said above: "Perhaps we should have a long term strategy? Like posting a thread on it and also the SEN board asking on it why people find our position hard to accept?"

Of course, I'm not saying that anybody should never go on the SEN boards, at all! Just saying that for people with ASD themselves it can be unexpected and hurtful to come across a thread where people are venting about how difficult it is to live with someone with ASD. The vent space is needed, I understand that, but it shouldn't make others feel bad. That's all I was saying.

I think Bertie may gave been referring to my post and I completely understand that view point and don't want to upset people

But it's pretty raw to get screamed at, or that's what it feels like, and have to have the misery downplayed. There's almost no hope with an adult. And no automatic biological parental bond.

Hence, I'm not prepared to post in SEN, where I have been told ,off by deniers on the basis of " if he got married and holds down a job he can't be AS" and " it's like that in all marriages", and " you don't have a problem ".

Nor am I prepared to post in relationships where either you are told LTB or again " it's like that in all marriages" , " you are only using AS as an excuse ".

So join the tea cake and Cassie thread , folks, in OTBT.

twgtwf I'm here! What do you want to hear?

I also identified with the Cassandra thing when I was with XH. It can be really draining trying to maintain some semblance of a relationship when you know that your partner wouldn't make the same effort for whatever reasons. We always used to joke that he was very 'grey' - there were no real highs or lows, nothing really got him excited or properly happy, but he also didn't get angry in the way that I would recognise it. He just went silent.

I realised that being with him had drained the colour out of me and the DCs too and since he left the colour had returned to us and he has also found his own happiness (his 50 shades of grey?!)

Frankly, what I need to know - and I know it'll be different for each and every relationship - is:

• to what extent is improvement in our relationship possible?
• what are the limits? (eg clearly he will never be the life and soul of a party, although he can be very funny indeed and often people love him)
• what, if anything, might motivate dh to have a proper go at that improvement?
• how much effort should I be required to make, what are the limits, and which efforts are most likely to succeed? Is it realistic to ask for a 50/50 effort, or must I put in much more effort?
• at what point is it OK to call it quits? And if I do, can I be sure that he will be OK? Will the dc be called on to look after him? Is that fair?

You did ask...

well you're right, I did ask! It's difficult I think for anyone else to know how severely your DH's quirks impact your relationship. For me I think it was about realising that he wasn't going to put in 50% effort, or really even 30%. Once he had his 'excuse' it was like he didn't even have to pretend to try anymore.

As others have said, AS doesn't mean you're abusive or an arsehole, it means that you see and think differently from your NT spouse so you might both need some pointers on how to communicate. It shouldn't mean one of you sacrificing your own needs and happiness to make the other comfortable.

So in answer to all of your points, I guess the answer is 'if he is willing to do some work on his communication skills and to try to understand things that might not some naturally, then yes it can work. If he shuts down anything that doesn't fit into his world view then you're going to struggle and you need to decide if his kind and funny moments outweigh the others.

As for the DCs, if you worry that they will end up having to 'take care of him' then I guess either he is quite severe. I didn't have any concerns about XH's capabilities, more his willingness to take care of them occasionally. While he might not do things the way I would, he is more than capable of parenting them for a short while and has even done a week while I've been on holiday with DP.

to what extent is improvement in our relationship possible?

• what are the limits? (eg clearly he will never be the life and soul of a party, although he can be very funny indeed and often people love him)
• what, if anything, might motivate dh to have a proper go at that improvement?
• how much effort should I be required to make, what are the limits, and which efforts are most likely to succeed? Is it realistic to ask for a 50/50 effort, or must I put in much more effort?
• at what point is it OK to call it quits? And if I do, can I be sure that he will be OK? Will the dc be called on to look after him? Is that fair?

sorry, pasted your Qs on my reply and then realised I didn't really have the answers!

motivation-wise, I guess if he knows you're contemplating calling it quits, that must be a good motivator to try and help improve your relationship.

In my experience twgtwf, it gets worse as they get older. They become even more rigid and you are the irrational, drama queen, hysterical cry baby.

No matter how much they hurt you they will never say sorry. You have to accept you provide your own emotional support even if you are in hospital, just had a baby or whatever else. If you have any problems them even having to listen to it is 'burdening them'. They are like this about everyone and will openly be horrible to everyone in public.

Never expect praise or support. Don't expect them to be like normal families and you will have to make effort for most things. My mum will pay for dinner or buy things instead or actually helping you so that's even worse as you can't even say anything as you look ungrateful.

I have no idea why some people with asd have children if they find them so difficult to cope with.

I think not liking the neighbours can be an ASD trait nettle tea. Mine rant and rant about everyone as they constantly say 'Is anyone round here normal'? Where I have to smile and just think 'well no definitely not you two'.

How can they have such strong opinions on everyone else when they do so many things to make others feel empty and sad. I don't think you ever get used to it and it's best just to never raise any issue with them. Have a relationship with them where you are civil and always cheery even if you have awful things going on. Don't tell them and work out your problems yourself or with external help. That way they can't make you feel worse. It is like barrier to protect yourself. It has taken me a considerable amount of time to get to this point. Trying to change them will only make you disappointed and sad ime.