Asperger's and relationships (again)

[MrsMiss]

I've been married for 10 years, and have four children, the youngest of whom is 3. Last year my husband was diagnosed with Asperger's. The psychiatrist said it was 'mild asperger's'. We'd waited a year for the diagnosis, and my dh refused to go for couples counselling until the diagnosis was made. In that time my mental health spiralled and I have had many points where I've felt at the end of my tether. I've been on anti-anxiety meds, and had counselling myself, and manage to drag myself to a place where I am now supposedly looking after myself.

I have good friends (none of whom know about the ASD), and have time away from the children (once a week I meet my friends for our 'sewing night' ) which is a big improvement on a couple of years ago where my life seemed to revolve around the young children, and I didn't have any time for myself.

We started seeing a relate counsellor in the Summer, but it wasn't great. We got lots of practical advice like maybe we could go on a weekend away, or ask for help blah blah blah… but nothing really addressing the issues within the relationship which are numerous.

Dh seems to think that the main problem is that we argue, and I shout and get angry. He would like to think we can compromise and have a rational discussion, but in truth, it is his way or nothing. He won't go out at all with other families or friends. He won't help out e.g. at the kids school, or cubs/beavers etc. It is hard to put across what it is like without it sounding like I'm being extremely unreasonable, wanting to have a certain life and having unrealistic expectations of him.

For me, I feel like I'm a single parent. He won't be part of a 'team'. He'll go out and buy presents for the children on his own, and arrange to do things with them on his own, for example when I'm out, but will have no part of 'sharing' anything as a family. He spends more time with our oldest daughter chatting and cooking etc than he does with me. I feel completely isolated, like a lodger in the house who has to serve all the people who live in the house, but otherwise keep out of the way and keep my thoughts and feelings to myself.

We've been on the same holiday for the last 10 years, we see one couple (his school friend and his wife) socially… I've carved out a new life with friends I've made through having the children, but dh won't have anything to do with them. He is rude to them - one husband of a friend asked if he'd like to join them (the other husbands) at a local pub quiz, and his flat response was 'no'.

When we initially got together he was very attentive and kind, and we were 'in love' and had the children in quick succession. Being pregnant 4 times has 'protected' me from the worst emotional problems if you like, because he has been 'on his best behaviour'. He did actually say that he couldn't cope if I was pregnant again. Now, he just doesn't speak to me. I feel that we job-share. Our responsibility is to look after the children, and we speak to share arrangements for the children. In the evening he can spend ours looking at videos and clips etc on his phone, and then will come to bed late. I try to carry on as normal, but am beyond lonely. I hate the constant atmosphere that he is oblivious to. He thinks if I'm not shouting, we're happy. I only shout out of complete exasperation, when I am completely worn down with his arguments, which are always logical and evidence-based and always right. Anything I say is just a waste of time.

We've been seeing a psychodynamic couples counsellor for a few months now, and it has been enlightening in some respects, but I'm just not sure she understands this asperger's thing. She sees it as a label, an unhelpful label, and thinks dh is no different from anyone else. That may be the case but he thinks he is different, and since he had the diagnosis it is as if all kindness and willingness to work together has evaporated, and I'm now supposed to accommodate what he calls his 'disability'. I've obviously tried the usual things - to communicate clearly, to be direct, to not expect him to want to be 'life and soul' of the party etc, but I can't cope with a life that is completely dictated by one person. I am trying to do my best for the children. I have supported them to join different groups and activities, to spend time with friends and other families even if I have to do it all on my own. Their friendships matter a lot to me, whereas I know dh wouldn't care if they never saw their friends.

I don't really know what I'm asking here, and I know that some people are going to tell me to leave him, and some people are going to say that I sound like a demanding monster. I wish I could get an objective view on whether I should continue to try to navigate through my emotions and the bleak loneliness and distress, and try to ignore every hope and dream I had of being a family and doing things together, or whether it would be a waste of my energy. I can't talk to people in real life about it all (he doesn't want them to know) and I worry that they wouldn't really understand anyway. I have times when I'd just like to walk away from it all. The children all show signs of similarity with dh, which makes it unbearable at times. I'm on egg-shells, dealing with tantrum after tantrum… just so lonely.

.... I heard Maxine Aston being interviewed on the radio once, she sounded very sane and is a therapist who works with couples where one has AS.

Several books on the subject.

Yes, cruelty from someone who is supposed to love you is incredibly upsetting. I don't understand why he thinks he is on the receiving end. It sounds as if your frustration boils over sometimes, it doesn't sound as if you are cruel to him. You have told him how his behaviour hurts him, why doesn't he do anything about it? Why did he insist on not going to Relate for a year while the diagnostic process went ahead - why is that relevant at all?

I think he thinks his AS gives him some kind of golden ticket to be an arsehole. But that's cynical old me!

sorry... how his behaviour hurts you

Coco. Aspergers and autism are not an illness. Please for the sake of your child educate yourself a bit more. Op sorry to hear you are going through such a tough time. I recommend NAS as a previous poster has suggested.

He is horrible, asd or no asd. Get rid. Easier said than done but honestly, you have one life, don't waste anymore on a person who treats you so badly

Op, I could have written your original post, a few years ago. Discussions were pointless. He would remain silent and then go and do whatever he wanted. Which meant he resigned from his job without discussion (no job to go to), me having just given birth to baby no4 three months prior.

He could not change, the relationship went round and round in circles - groundhog day Apart from the conversations about kids/running the home, my exh had literally nothing to say, didn't want to interact.

I divorced him when I realised that I made his life easy, he made my life so hard.

I understand your situation. It's excruciatingly hard. Everything was a struggle.

If there are some aspects of your life together that is positive, then maybe you can cope. In the end , as he got older, things (the inflexibility that is Aspergers) got worst - he didn't want to hug the children, dinner in silence, or he would leave the table. Anything that he didn't want to do he didn't do - no housework, never came with me to parents' evening. I was isolated/depressed and so unhappy.

Can I recommend a website started by a MNer whose DH has been diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome? It's called Different Together. Many of the topics that have been raised on this thread have been discussed in detail there, for example, counsellors with knowledge of AS. The website is aimed at those trying to stay in their AS/Neuro-Typical (NT) relationships, so takes a positive standpoint.

Thank you for that info. I had heard of Maxine Easton and wanted to go on one of her workshops but I can't see any dates for next year for the partner workshop. I have just looked at the Different Together website which looks great, and it am trying to register so I can look at the list of counsellor a, that is probably my last great hope - that I can find someone who can help us both.

Lionhearted your situation sounds so similar - how is life for you now?

I was devastated by the divorce, despite being the one who initiated it. I had no friends, hadn't worked for years, up to my eyes in debt (he was appalling with money, buying top end items for himself while I struggled to pay bills and feed the kids)

I was also a Aspergers shaped woman, in that I had spent so long in a dysfunctional relationship that my idea of what was normal was abnormal. I have needed time to grieve, and acknowledge that the kind, simple man I fell in love with hurt me. Because he was unable to communicate and compromise unless I agreed with him on every aspect. Just the way he is made.

Years on...I am much happier than I was married. I am content and at peace.

(If you want to PM me, you are very welcome to do so. If my experiences can help)

mrsmiss unfortunately diagnoses don't change anything. they can help you accept things more, but it doesn't mean things don't need to be addressed - they just need to be addressed in a different and more understanding way.

it sounds like you have realised this but your DH is seeing the label as an excuse (I use label here lightly considering an earlier post). I know someone who was diagnosed with aspergers and used the label as an excuse to be a twat basically - 'what do you mean I've offended you, I have aspergers I don't understand these things' was used a lot to excuse awful behaviour. Ultimately this person fails to retain relationships in any form because rather than accepting she sees things differently and attempting to work towards empathising with others, she thinks everyone should empathise with her solely. And its bloody hard work.

I don't honestly know what to advise you to do, but please realise crappy behaviour is just crappy behaviour. People with asd are generally able to understand that whilst its not their instinct, its what's 'expected of them'

MrsMiss sorry things are hard right now.

I would also strongly recommend joining the Different Together forum.

Just cut and paste your OP into "General Natter". Lots of asperger partners on there - there will be many people to talk to which will help with your feelings of loneliness and help you to reclaim yourself.

Sorry to nit pick. What MonkeyB means is there are lots of partners of people who have AS on Different Together. It is a site for the NT partners, rather than those with AS.

Thanks CheapSM - not nit picking at all! that is what I meant - Am too tired to string a sentence together tonight

You're welcome MB I wish you a good night's sleep!

Op,

Several things. Dh is on the spectrum.

If your dh accepts his diagnosis that is a major step forward. It takes some of the expectation and blame away.

Secondly, do not go to a counsellor who is not experienced in AS. That way lies disaster as a number of us have found.

Three, distinguish between AS and ArSe. If the latter preponderates consider whether you want to leave.

Four, cherish yourself. No one else will. Don't beat yourself up, we have all been there.

Five, def go on to Diff together. You will find advice, rants, one person says she is in the reward stage. Many are far from it. Lots of resources and some meet ups.

It will always be lonely. There are some compensations, a few. But it is never going to be a fairy tale ending. Managing one's hope, fears and energy is very important.

Hope that helps you and others on this thread.

Waves at cheap!

Did I say my son had Aspergers? No. My son's school insinuated it and given that he's 4 years old I understand had I accepted that diagnosis (they have reffered him to child psychologist) and not worked with my son he would still display social awkwardness. Did I say he is totally cured within a week? No. I said he has marked improvements. He's 3 years old and has greater brain plasticity then that of an adult. Do your homework on brain plasticity and you might understand my point.

Also people can grow out of aspergers. I know somebody who was diagnosed as a child and as an adult they are considerate of feelings and a social butterfly.

You only have to read case studies on Autism to see that many recover. I'm not saying all do as it's not one cure suits all or even that all autism can be cured. But my point was sometimes a diagnosis just leads to an excuse to never try new behaviours.

My nephew has severe autism so I'm not naive. My nephew now gets lots of help and he's thriving, he's nearly 5 and just learning to communicate now. A year ago without specialist teachers he couldn't express himself and had zero understanding of danger. He has learnt new skills!! I'm not saying he will ever be cured but he has improved. Had they not tried he never would have!! That is my point.

Coco - I have no doubt that you have helped your DS. I think I've helped my ASD son and myself too. But it's not something that you 'recover' from. Although it's a disability it has some good things to recommend it IMO. Eg, aspies are rarely bitchy, sneaky or pretentious and often put our interests to good use instead of into being cool/fashionable/popular etc

ASD often comes with anxiety and stress which can lead to depression amongst other things so understanding why you behave or feel the way you do is very helpful to either changing your behaviour or accepting that some things aren't necessary to do eg go to large gatherings that are considered 'normal' but aren't compulsory.

Mrs sorry for my long rant .

FWIW I would probably leave DH if I had enough money and didn't have chronic fatigue. Also DH does have some very good points which I didn't mention when I was dissing him (he bought a huge bouquet on our wedding anniversary -although at the risk of sounding ungrateful I had to pretend to be pleased as he ought to know by now that I think huge bouquets are a waste of money and I'm just as delighted with a dozen carnations - they last longer too ) Eg he is fantastically calm and able in a crisis. Not judgmental (he's not interested anyway ) He's very clever and we sometimes have very interesting discussions about politics etc And he did used to put up with me having massive ragers and ranting and going on about stuff - which I have managed to stop. I never shout now thanks to a few lightbulb moments and finding Buddhist meditation and philosophy! (Out of the blue)

Please don't be offended if I'm completely wrong, but could you have ASD too? I'm only asking because birds of a feather flock together as they say and it is very underdiagnosed in women - we're much more culturally conditioned to be sociable and caring. I didn't realise till I was 47.

On of the difficulties, as posters have said, is lack of self-awareness. Eg I only recently realised that I get stressed in some driving situations (don't we all) and in city centres etc because I'm (subconsciously) frightened of the traffic noises. I automatically think I'm going to be run over or have a collision. But not consciously. It's such a habitual deep-seated response that I don't realise I'm being impatient or unsociable (because of the horrible stress - I can't function properly because my brain has gone into in flight mode ) IYSWIM. And it's very difficult to explain sometimes that I just don't know what to say in some situations and that I'm in a knot of frustration and shame about being inadequate so I can sometimes be abrupt even though I put quite a lot of importance on good manners and being kind normally.

Would your DH go to some sort of counselling on his own perhaps so he can become more self-aware?

Rogue, thankyou . Those who implied I'm damaging my child are wrong. I am not pressuring him to do these things, I'm suggesting and because of that he is happy. Had I not began encouraging him he could have developed habits much harder to challenge later In life. Just to be clear I never believed for one moment my child was aspergers, however certain professionals implied that. Maybe my child met the criteria due to his behaviour but as he is able to learn new behaviours and enjoy them, I happen to believe he is shy. I guess I was rather alarmed that a person can't just be shy anymore without it been a disorder. Why must we place everybody in boxes? Yes some people do have illnesses and disorders but many get labeled when they are a variation of what is normal. I will teach my child it's ok to be whoever he is and to accept himself.

Also the person who called me a twat so what is your disorder then, as it's not socially acceptable to get so angry and offensive just because somebody has a different opinion. Maybe they will stick 'twat' in the DSM and you can diagnose yourself as that!!

Coco, there are many people with asd and indeed NTs, that believe that those on the spectrum are 'normal'. It's really about the rest of society being more understanding, more accommodating and more accepting.

Galvanised. That is my point though, what is so wrong with being different. How can anybody accept themselves if they are labelled. Some find a label comforting, many feel ashamed. It's ok to not be like everyone else, we aren't meant to all be the same!

OP, these 'boxes' you object to often represent the beginning of vital interventions at school or college (or beyond). The 'labels' are extremely hard to come by and can take years of (often expensive) assessments.

Of course those on the spectrum should accept themselves and be proud of their identity; who on earth would think otherwise?

Need a scarf- again that's mt point. These so called specialists are too quick to diagnose. It's like they want to label everybody when sometimes people just struggle or are different.

It is fundamental to solving this that you take the Aspergers seriously and don't write it off as"just a label".

x 10000 to that concept.

He will have a different way of thinking and understanding it will help you work together.

Hopefully someone whose partner has AS can help here.

I would look for a counsellor who won't dismiss the AS as a "label" too.

We are all different. We aren't all on the autistic spectrum.