"leagues" of attractiveness - who's out of your league?!

[DraenorQueen]

So, I'm fat. Size 22, 5 foot 7. Huge boobs but undeniably fat. I'm sociable though... genuine, intelligent (i like to think!!) and have an acceptably pleasant face. I've slept with many men, some of whom were EXTREMELY good looking, and when I think back to these I always think "god, they were out of my league." And that got me thinking. Does anyone else have these "leagues?" Do you put yourself into a league and do you do it with others?

I'm stewing it over tonight as I REALLY fancy a (single) bloke from work, and we flirt and get on a treat. But because I'm fat and he's incredibly fit and attractive, I automatically write off the possibility of anything because he's "out of my league."

I hate that I do myself down and apparently don't regard myself as a "catch." But... I can't help feeling this "leagues" thing is real. Would welcome any thoughts.

Donnatella

People in the entertainment industry are often chosen for their looks but no-one can agree on who is good looking. I previously gave the examples of Brad Pitt, Johnny Depp and Bradley Cooper - I don't find these men attractive at all.

I've never see a goodlooking male porn star in my life, and many female pornstars are minging - apif they don't start off that way they look dog-eared quite quickly in that industry - so that doesn't hold water either.

You claim most people choose their lovers based on looks but actually they choose them on the basis of attraction which is not the same thing at all.

I think we are confusing leagues when you are in a relationship with perceived leagues when you see a couple in the street.

I was talking about the latter.

gwenhyfar yes that'd be horrifying! it'd have to be done by a mixed sex panel who conducted interviews in person! with both sexes.

twinklestein I think you have your head in the sand on this one!

If somebody knows they're attractive, slim, young with all their own hair and teeth they're just not going to be as open to an attraction developing with a person who is for example overweight if they aren't, or unattractive if they themselves are attractive. You claim you don't see leagues and yet you managed to differentiate between those couples on strictly and I can't, so I counter that you are actually more aware of leagues than I am, not less!

It seems that for some posters a woman's worth is only in her beauty.

Doesn't matter if you are a doctor for medicin sans frontiers, a Pulitzer Prize winner, the greatest scientist of our time whatever. It's all about having conventional good looks.

yeh...... true.

i remember the men in the city, when a new woman started, it didn't matter if she had a law degree and/or an mba from harvard, they'd still mark her out of ten for her looks. and that would be her value.

It's so depressing that men can be valued for a whole range of things.

But then,this value that men impose on women, it's strangers, men who mean nothing to you, so it's important to remember that these men who would seek to 'lower' your value by rating you only according to your looks, they don't get to do that.....unless you let them.

Meh, I think some men do it, some women do it.

I mean, really, you see a guy you find v attractive in the street with a woman you don't think as so attractive and this puzzles you? Really? And you think I suppose she's good at blow jobs or something?

How dismissive/how misogynistic.

Millie Mackintosh, one of the original MiC cast is married to a 'chav'

that is a famous music artist doubt she would be if he was a binman

I respect your view Twinklestein and I wish I agreed with it - the world would be a better place.

He's a professor, no!?!

I work in the City and yes, women's looks do come into it. Of course, some use it to their advantage. But that's a whole different story!

CEOs of large companies offen marry a secretaries or someone else junior to them. just as doctors often marry nurses.

And this is exactly confirming my view. Men not looking for their intellecual equal but a bit of totty maybe.

there's a reason cliches become cliches.

I won't ever forget watching as a kid the disappointment on people's faces when the curtain went back on "blind Date" when they discovered they'd picked the minger and wished they'd gone for the thicie with the worse answers.

All the people on blind date were attention seeking thickies.

All below my league.

Helmet that maybe how they were brought up. My mother made it quite clear that my only real worth was in how attractive I was to a man and that I didn't possess any of the necessary qualities.

She would pick me apart (personalilty, character and appearance), criticise and tell me I'd "never get married if...", "no one would want me because..." . I have spent my entire life seeking validation from/trying to be attractive to the wrong men and I have a very strong sense of league.

In fact pretty much all men are out of my league, I believe, which has meant I have made some shockingly poor choices over the years.

Now part of my 'single' issue is that I want to attract a more decent man, but I don't believe I could ever get one. I avoid all men who are sorted grown ups because they deserve better than me. To give some idea, I have a first class degree and a professional career and yet until I was 38, I'd never dated a man who could drive/owned a car.

wow! Dreadful!

I remember saying to my mum "what if I don't get married?" and she said "oh you will, you will" and I challenged that assumption even at 7. My dd wouldn't worry about not getting married luckily.

I was going to say something like that folk, i think many women put men on a pedestal. They think they're better than women. Why?!?!

I know from your posts, you are a fantastic, thoughtful and sensitive woman- I genuinely don't believe any man is 'out of your league'.

lol at the ''i've picked the minger'' face on blind date. I remember that face donatella

Oh and not because they'd made a decision no to drive based on moral grounds, but because they prioritised "being a kid" or couldn't afford it or were just incapable of being a grown up.

a guy from my year at school was on blind date! he came across well. I worked with him in a supermarket for a summer job when we were 17 and our dads worked together. was so surprised when I saw him pop up on blind date!

yes, on these threads, I often think, wow, these women are so intelligent and insightful and I want to go out for a bottle of wine and a bowl of curly fries with these women and hear more of their observations!

Who was it on this thread who said "well i'd date me!". amen.

A slim person not finding an overweight person attactive is f all to do with leagues just personal taste. There are plenty of couples with one slim and one overweight partner.

You claim you don't see leagues and yet you managed to differentiate between those couples on strictly and I can't, so I counter that you are actually more aware of leagues than I am, not less!

You seem to have missed the point. I said that leagues don't exist and the proof of that is that no-one on this thread can agree as to whether Aljaz is good looking or not or how goodlooking his partner is.

It's all in the eye of the beholder and comes down to personal taste.

Ironically, while I chose Aljaz as a random example of a goodlooking man, I don't fancy him. I like men who are superbright and very intellectual, and he's a good-natured dancer whose brains aren't going to set the world on fire. Not my type at all.

Twinklestein, there are no rules carved in granite obviously but you are the one missing the point.

We agree that it's not purely looks, we agree that it's attraction, it's compatibility, it's connection, it's chemistry, but on very sub conscious level people are a damn sight more open to these attractions developing with people who have roughly the same to offer as they do. There, that's a good way of putting it which avoids the 'league' word that you can't seem to get behind. The vast majority of people won't willingly go in to a committed relationship with somebody who has (semi-objectively/ semi-subjectively) got less to offer than they have.

The eye of the beholder is well aware of whether they are selling them self short or not.

i remember the men in the city, when a new woman started, it didn't matter if she had a law degree and/or an mba from harvard, they'd still mark her out of ten for her looks. and that would be her value.

I worked in the city myself.

Some men are intimidated by the highly qualified women they work with,
and their way of dealing with it is to cut them down to size in their heads.

Marks out of 10 is a sexist tool designed to empower fragile egos and try to assert dominance.

That's not representative of the men I worked with, most of whom were very intelligent. But it depends on the workplace.

Interesting thread. I don't believe in leagues, and I don't know why people maintain these ideas. Maybe to be able to look at that so called mis-matched couple and think that he/she could have done better? And Donatella, why would a nurse not be of intellectual equality with a doctor? Or a secretary with the CEO? Such nonsense! It's trying to keep some stereo typing going.
I do think however that if I'm going to make babies with a guy I'd like to be attracted to him, but that attraction is not just looks. It's how a guy looks after himself, the way he treats me and other people, especially ones he some kind of authority over (staff, kids etc). His values, intelligence. I once loved a guy so much, but when I first met him I was not attracted to him at all. When I got to know him better though he became the most beautiful person in the world. For a while.
I dislike the league thing. It's just putting people in boxes based on their looks and other traits, and then deciding who is in the top box and who is on the bottom. Not really looking for the best in people isn't it?
I live in a country where men are generally very very handsome (of course it depends on what you find attractive) and they look after themselves better than some women do. However, you see guys with their wife and you'd think they are a "mis-match", but the guy probably was smart enough to look for a wife that suits him in terms of life goals and being a partner and mother of his children rather than looks being a priority. And who knows he might think his wife is the most stunning woman to have ever walked the planet!

yes rationally I know that but it is still an oppressive sort of atmosphere to work in. some of the men i worked with were intelligent and education. some, not all. they'd ogle the calendar of naked women on the wall, they'd read the sun, they'd make crude comments about women, and then they'd phone their wives (usually called lucy, charlotte or susannah) at about 17.22 to say they'd be on the usual to chalfont-st giles and kiss kiss see you later, do you need anything darling??'

such an eye-opener. many masks.

It happens Guna. I have been party to many a "I'd fuck xxxx given half a chance" conversations. Then they go and play happy families with their wives and kids.