"leagues" of attractiveness - who's out of your league?!

[DraenorQueen]

So, I'm fat. Size 22, 5 foot 7. Huge boobs but undeniably fat. I'm sociable though... genuine, intelligent (i like to think!!) and have an acceptably pleasant face. I've slept with many men, some of whom were EXTREMELY good looking, and when I think back to these I always think "god, they were out of my league." And that got me thinking. Does anyone else have these "leagues?" Do you put yourself into a league and do you do it with others?

I'm stewing it over tonight as I REALLY fancy a (single) bloke from work, and we flirt and get on a treat. But because I'm fat and he's incredibly fit and attractive, I automatically write off the possibility of anything because he's "out of my league."

I hate that I do myself down and apparently don't regard myself as a "catch." But... I can't help feeling this "leagues" thing is real. Would welcome any thoughts.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

I agree with IrishDad79 if he's talking about when two single people are already compatible in their personalities and enjoy each other's company. In that situation, if they considered themselves in each others leagues and both were at least open to the possibility of a relationship, then something might happen next?! If the two get on well but it's quickly shut right down and not taken anywhere, I think one of them thinks they can do better.

[Twinklestein]

There have been academic studies on this, and it's statistically provable that people tend to be drawn to pairing with those at a similar level of 'attractiveness' (based on assessment of the the same sample group). Apparently, this is as much to do with mating instincts (the right genes) as with subjective beauty

Poorly digested evolutionary psychobollocks.

You cannot prove levels of attractiveness academically because they're in the eye of the beholder. Studies that claim you can are simply talking horseshit.

For example, I cannot stand Brad Pitt or Johnny Depp. I've no idea what anyone sees in them. Depp is a reasonably good actor which keeps him employed but Pitt is not. Depp is beginning to remind me of Michael Jackson.

[Twinklestein]

My experience is that people who believe in 'levels' of attractiveness are generally either a) quite insecure or b) quite naïve.

I've never thought anyone was out of my league tbh, it's just confidence.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

Ps, HPSauciness, my children's father was much more handsome than I was but it was a terrible compromise. My ''asset'' was that I was much more outgoing and sociable and could always think of the right thing to say in any situation. I carried him socially for years and it was exhausting. I'm so over looking for the best looking man I can 'get' at any cost and I really wish I hadn't been so foolish in my late 20s. Really wish I'd had the maturity to recognise that things like emotional intelligence, common decency etc were assets too!

[aWowChristmasGuna]

and.......... my son is the image of me and shy like his father!!!! {rolls eyes}

[CherryPicking]

People who are really out of my league I tend not to fancy anyway.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

and yet Twinklestein, we've discussed it on other threads I think, unless I'm mistaking you for another poster you know that internet dating is not easy because so many men have a notion that beautiful women 15 years younger than their pot bellied balding 55 year old selves are the ones who are in their league!

I am not shallow. A very ordinary looking man could either attract me enormously or repel me and it would ALL depend on his personality. But there is a face so unattractive that I couldn't feel an attraction, and their are also faces so conventionally attractive that as HPSauciness says, I don't want to jeopardise my asset (time) or to compete with other women with at least as many assets. I want my assets to be valued, not considered run of the mill.

[Twinklestein]

To given an example from Strictly Come Dancing.

I think Aljaz is stunning, better looking than any current Hollywood star I can think of. His fiancée is attractive, a vivacious personality and a great dancer, but she's not drop-dead gorgeous.

I think Kevin is minging, irritating & a crap dancer yet he's engaged/married to the gorgeous Karen, so she clearly doesn't share my opinion.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

ps, I rarely see a conventionally handsome man with a woman who could be described as very ordinary. Whatever about the other way around..... see that depressingly often.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

I'll have to google Aljaz.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

They're both very attractive, and they have their dancing in common. I wouldn't see them as mismatched.

[Twinklestein]

you know that internet dating is not easy because so many men have a notion that beautiful women 15 years younger than their pot bellied balding 55 year old selves are the ones who are in their league!

I've never done internet dating so you may confuse me with another poster. However I'm well aware of the sad delusions of middle-aged men.

There's a difference between self-confidence and self-deception.

I'm 45, I'm not going to pull a 25 year old unless he's into MILFs, and I don't want to date someone young enough to be my son. I wouldn't say he was out of my league, just too young. And I'm too married.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

Karen and Kevin look to me at a glance like two very attractive people but I don't know their personalities, even their tv personalities.

The biggest mismatch I can think of....... Maia Dunphy and Johnny Vegas! But they won ''All star Mr & Mrs"

That is the combination of beautiful woman and ugly fat man. It's no wonder men try to 'get' women who are out of their league. why wouldn't they try? It seems to happen bafflingly often.

[Twinklestein]

They're both very attractive, and they have their dancing in common. I wouldn't see them as mismatched

Precisely.

And yet some people do.

That's why I don't believe 'levels' exist. No-one can ever agree on them, and there is so much more to attraction than physical appearance.

[Twinklestein]

Karen and Kevin look to me at a glance like two very attractive people

Another good example because I think Kev looks like a toad.

You and I don't agree on Kevin's 'level'.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

Apologies Twinklestein. I do agree with you by the way. I've had much younger men message me and offer me the 'opportunity' (would that be the word?) to have sex with them and I'm not interested because like you say, they'd be young enough to be my son I want a connection, a compatibility, a chemistry, blah blah blah........... and I think I've found it occasionally only to realise that the man is determined to keep his options open, to date a younger version of me in the future!! So, there's no confidence in the world that can change other people's (men's) self-delusion and self-deception. The dating pool is small. It's better to be confident than lacking confidence, and my self-esteem is healthy but it doesn't solve the fact that that dating pool is really small.

I'm ''dating'' a man at the moment. He's interesting and such good company. He wants to have sex. I would have been open to the possibility of a relationship. Impasse. It's happened before. Kind of bored of that particular file.

[HPsauciness]

Twinklestein I know what you mean about Aljaz, he is simply the best looking man on TV for a looooong time, however, although his fiancee is not perhaps identically beautiful as he is handsome, she's still broadly in his 'league'- which is hot, female, thin, dedicated, superfit dancers. Now within that, he's clearly gone for someone he gets on with well, but he didn't go with someone much larger (which may be an issue for dancers who are obsessed with exercise) or with flabby arms, or who is a bit older etc. Dancers like and value other dancers' attributes, once you get to top competition level, surely they are all in a similar league, even if we personally prefer one to another looks-wise?

If there is a huge perceived differential, such as with Hugh Jackman and his older not as conventionally attractive wife, this is commented on a lot, and suggested there may be other 'assets' at play (in his case, that she is a beard).

In general, I think people do mostly maximize the type of person they go for- so looks, intelligence, body type, employability/wealth and so on, and then pick someone they like personality-wise within that.

As for those saying no-one is out of their league, I felt like that when young, but now older, I see that the hot young men I liked in my youth simply don't even see me anymore, so not only am I not in their league, I am not even in their line of vision (and am now in the line of vision of all the 60 year old guys even though I'm mid forties)!

[aWowChristmasGuna]

I still think levels exist but you're looking at couples in the public eye who are both confident, successful, both attractive, it's just whether they are a 9 or an 8.5 that you're focusing on.

[Helmetbymidnight]

But those young men aren't in my league- because I'm not interested in them. Why would I want to have a relationship with a 20 year old?

The more I am reading, the more rubbish I think this 'league theory' is.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

Yes, HPSauciness, I agree with your assessment there.

Hugh Jackman, a hotter man. So rarely happens.

And lol at not even in their line of vision never mind their league. You gorra larf.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

20 year old men are red herrings.

[LaPharisienne]

I think everyone is aware of what is conventionally attractive and where people sit on the scale if they stop and think, regardless of how much value they put on this objective standard.

But, naturally, everyone finds different people attractive for different reasons! So it seems to me that who you end up with is be a funny combination of how attractive you are on the objective scale, what/who you find attractive and how happy you are to follow your subjective heart/ loins rather than objective dictat.

Someone who holds a lot of stock by what other people think of their appearance is unlikely to be happy going out with someone their friends won't rate, however much they secretly want to bang them? I quite like the idea of lots of beautiful people desperately hungering after odd looking people like me and missing out on happiness to go out with fellow model types :)

[donnattella]

I think when a man becomes rich or a celebrity his physical attractivness becomes less important in the equation.

Kevin is a minger in my view, but then I think Aljaz's girlfriend is prettier than Karen so obviously subjective.

I do think eyebrows would be raised if aljaz was going out with Anne Widdecomb though - and this is what I mean about leagues.

[Helmetbymidnight]

I think the league thing is all about looks- but we all know there are masses of reasons people get together and stay together.

Agree re johnny depp - so if I turned him down it means I thought I could get someone in a higher league? Rubbish - it's because he's not my type.

[donnattella]

My celebrity crush is Mark Ruffalo. Because he's soft and squishy and comes across and kind and gentle and sort of humble and that geography-teacher-dork thing is such a turn on for me. Never gone for the Aljaz type. Yuk!!!!! would walk away if he chatted me up.

But who's to say a man who likes a larger body shape, for example one who goes for a size 18 over a size 8 is any less shallow? He is just shallow in a diferrent way. The only way to NOT be shallow is to have no type at all. To have no preference sexually over someone of 18 or 80 or someone's size or height or hair colour or bad breath or being unsemployed for 18 years. If that was how the world worked, online dating would have no photos. Truth is people choose ONLY off the photos and find out the rest later.

Everyone is shallow...just about diferrent things in diferrent ways.

I am also not convinced that we are born physically attractive or not. I think most people could make themselves look a heck of a lot sexier and mor beautiful with a bit of work if they felt that was important to them. Celebrities do it all the time.

You can get facials and spray tans and lose weight and dress nicely and go for a run every day and eat healthily and wear makeup and get false eyelashes and get a nosejob and get your hair coloured and styled and believe me MOST people can look like a Kardashian with enough work and time - with perhaps only a few things being made unnatainable by money.

It's all really about how much that matters to you. I am not convinced that in every day life you are likely to be any happier for being "beautiful" than just being an average person and finding someone who fits naturally with you.