"leagues" of attractiveness - who's out of your league?!

[DraenorQueen]

So, I'm fat. Size 22, 5 foot 7. Huge boobs but undeniably fat. I'm sociable though... genuine, intelligent (i like to think!!) and have an acceptably pleasant face. I've slept with many men, some of whom were EXTREMELY good looking, and when I think back to these I always think "god, they were out of my league." And that got me thinking. Does anyone else have these "leagues?" Do you put yourself into a league and do you do it with others?

I'm stewing it over tonight as I REALLY fancy a (single) bloke from work, and we flirt and get on a treat. But because I'm fat and he's incredibly fit and attractive, I automatically write off the possibility of anything because he's "out of my league."

I hate that I do myself down and apparently don't regard myself as a "catch." But... I can't help feeling this "leagues" thing is real. Would welcome any thoughts.

[Iwasbornin1993]

People used to say OH was "punching above his weight" when we were younger. But then I got fatter and OH seemingly matured into his looks and is now drop dead gorgeous! Though he always was to me of course. I'm constantly getting told how attractive he is, and he is always getting asked out on dates and flirted with even when I'm there would you believe! So I guess now he's out of my league! He's stuck with me now though so it's tough luck

[AGBforever]

I definitely agree with men thinking they are one notch up and women thinking one notch down.. I really wish I could tell my 17 yr old self how (relatively) hot she was!

Although I was just friendly today with a guy at work who clearly thought I was hitting on him - 8 yrs age gap, 2 under 3yr olds, my DH is my business partner so situation not unknown to him.. yeah that's gonna happen. (He was cute tho..)

[pissedonatrain]

It does seem so many men think they deserve a supermodel and then they settle for what they can get! :)

Early 20s it was all about fun shagging around. I had no idea how hot I was back then. It was all about the looks back then.

My first H was a very hot Italian. Turned out to be an abusive drunk. I used food as comfort and gained around 45kg on my small frame. Not a good look or healthy.

I got the impression than people didn't get why someone as hot as he was was with someone fat like me.

Then after 20 years, we got divorced and lost many kg of dead weight.

Met my 2nd H who is 10 years younger than me. I was way out of his league. Now, he has gotten an attitude calling me old and gross so I guess he thinks he is out of my league now.

I'm over 50 and a bit saggy and could stand to lose a stone, so not sure how dating is going to work out when guys around my age want 20 year olds.

I don't care that much about looks anymore. I'd like someone nerdy like an engineer, teacher, etc. Would prefer them not to have a bunch of self inflicted illnesses and no couch potato as I like to be active. No porn f

[IrishDad79]

Everybody, whether consciously or sub-consciously, puts themselves and potential partners in a "league". If you've ever turned down someone's advances because you quite simply didn't fancy them, you're basically saying "you're not in my league, love."

[ThisIsStillFolkGirl]

pissed I know some very good looking teachers

I'm 40 and, as the only men who flirt with me now are my very safe, happily married 60 something friends, I think it's safe to say all men are out of my league!

Despite how I feel at times, realistically I don't think I hit every branch when I fell out of the ugly tree. Men would seem to disagree, however!

I don't want someone who has realised they can't get what they really want and so is settling for me with no talk of love or attraction. I want someone who thinks they're lucky to have found me. And if they don't...

I think my finest moment was discovering I was being talked about by two very unattractive men who were 30+ years older than me and one who was hugely overweight and being rejected because I wasn't quite as perfect a 37 year old as they wanted to look at. Because they were in with a chance...

[Helmetbymidnight]

I disagree, irish dad. I don't think turning someone down says: you're not in my league. And I don't think those 60 something's who ask out 40 something's are thinking leagues too. It's what people like, that's all.

I've always had peculiar tastes looks wise, so maybe I go for non league players?

[IrishDad79]

Ok, but turning someone down based purely because you're not attracted to them looks wise is saying that they're not in your league.

[Helmetbymidnight]

Nah, I've turned down plenty of handsome men- I just didn't fancy them/not my type.

When I say plenty I mean two.

[ButtonMoon88]

I think initially you may look at someone and make a quick are they in my league type judgment but once you get to know them the lines blur. It's never that clear cut, everyone has their own desires and preferences. Don't be hard on yourself, you will find the right person for you! Confidence and honesty is the key

[MagicalHamSandwich]

It's all about perception, though, isn't it?

I tend to think everyone's out of my league. That would be because I have confidence issues - especially when it comes to men. That having been said: I've dated several extremely attractive men (some classically 'hot', some more of the magnetic charisma that pulls everyone in variety) including the 'hot guy' in my year all through high school. Always assumed they all had taste issues ...

I know others view me differently. When my marriage was breaking down and my ExH started behaving like a complete twat, my boss (who knew him from work dos as my plus one) apparently commented to a colleage that 'Magical's H should really be grateful and shut up - she's so far out of his league they're hardly even playing the same game'.

Made my (fucked up by then STBEXH's antics up to that point) day!

[Trills]

If you've ever turned down someone's advances because you quite simply didn't fancy them, you're basically saying "you're not in my league, love."

I disagree. That's not what "league" means.

The idea of leagues is not about whether you personally fancy someone, it's about whether we as a society can agree on a ranking system for human beings.

But an individual might find another individual more or less attractive than their "league" would suggest.

[Baconyum]

Its definitely more about confidence!

I'm fat,43 OK facially. But no model. I'd been single for years partly due to ex doing the cliché of 'replacing' me with a younger slimmer model. Genuinely, when I was due to meet her somewhere I asked a mutual friend what she looked like answer "you. Just 15 years younger! She even dresses like you and has the same beliefs!"

Ex was obsessed with having someone to show off. When I (naturally) gained weight after having dd it was constant digs about my weight and 'helpful suggestions' when he was in a good mood, in a bad one I was 'an embarrassing fat cow!" (At size 14!)

Now 2nd wife gaining weight due to several pregnancies and natural aging, he's doing the same to her. She's a size 12 and he's got her going to sw!

I started 'dating' shagging again a few years ago, hitting 40 and deciding fuck ex I'm gonna have some fun! No problems meeting sometimes young, always fit guys who are good company since I stopped worrying! If they weren't interested they'd soon make it clear (as a few of course have, their prerogative and I don't always fancy those who contact me, however good looking. There's more to attraction than looks of course).

What helped was talking to guy friends of mine. One of whom has a genuine thing for larger ladies and has never dated a skinny (known him since age 10). The others are married to women who the women perhaps would consider the guys out of their league but the guys don't think so. Plus another friend who is less than blessed in conventional looks but his (ex model) wife adores him (he is a really lovely guy).

Human attraction is complicated.

I say sod the hangups and have fun!

[expatinscotland]

LOL, there's an article in the Daily Fail about being an older women and dating. Of course, the comments are hilarious. Loads of 60-something males saying
they want a 40-something woman, but those woman won't look at them as they aren't rich. No shit!

[Seeyounearertime]

40-something woman, but those woman won't look at them as they aren't rich. No shit!

I hope you're not saying that 40+ women only want a big fat wallet?

[Branleuse]

I dont think anyones out of my league. I think im pretty worthy

[expatinscotland]

'I hope you're not saying that 40+ women only want a big fat wallet? grin'

Nevah! As a 44-year-old woman, if I were single, I'd be gagging for a pot-bellied, impoverished pensioner. Definitely.

[TooSassy]

I think this can depend on a few things

1. where you live and work
   
2. what type of person you go for
   
   In London (square mile), the people (that I have met) are image conscious and also can be less grounded and more fickle.
   If you aim for one of the confident / suited/ booted city guys they are (on the surface) going to think they are out of most women's leagues and that you are worthy to be in their company. I am of course semi taking the mickey, they aren't all like that. But I could see that if you were someone who went for that type, you may begin to think they are out of your league.
   
   I don't think people are out of my league so much as I try to see if they are people who have that inflated sense of self. And men (more than women IMO) do have that self belief and swagger. Women will be far more likely to put themselves down.
   
   Plenty of grounded guys who will openly tell you they don't have a type and someone who has a sense of humour and is confident can be very very sexy.

[donnattella]

I got flamed quite badly the otehr day by saying i felt physical attractiveness was a large precursor ro how likely it is for someone to want to be with you romanically or sexually. I got called shallow.

I do stand by that though. I do think people tend to bat in their own league to some degree as part of the social norm. It starts in school...cheerleader with the jock and all that. It's the way the world works. I am sure there are some biological foundations in it.

However, I'd stipulate:

I think people can fall in love with people totally outside their "league" or norm

I think people can form attractions to someone for other reasons that overcome them not necessarily finding the way a person looks their ideal.

I think that it only generally applies to initial attraction, and most people will continue loving you once you get older and change

I think that it is more true for men than women

I think that diferrent people find diferrent things physically attractive.

I think a lot of it is down to the media and the way we have what beautiful is rammed down our throats.

For me, I am attracted to brains and kindness but to some degree the man has to have certain physical things for me to feel a general sexual stirring. That would often be that he is taller than me, that he is clean and smells nice, that he does not look too pretty or dress too trendy. That he has a decent job.

For me none of that is shallowness...maybe more that i know I like to feel smaller than a man to make me feel sexy or that I know a very tredny man isn't going to like me and my Barry Manilow records.

I do think there is pressure put on men to get the best looking partner they can get. By their mates and all that. Nasty business as I wish the world worked diferrently.

I do think though that physical beauty only takes you so far or gets you in the door, and what is inside is what makes someone want to be around you, spend time with you for longer than just a night.

There are plenty of women though that do not fit the "norm" of what society calls beautiful who are incredibly sexy physically. For example Helen Mirren at 70 could wipe the floor with most 20 year olds. I know a LOT of male friends who fancy Melissa McCarthy to death because she's hilarious, pretty and you can just imagine wanting to be around her.

I'd say like anything, a great body and pretty face is a massive advantage in life. That's why people go to the gym and get their hear done and wear makeup and get braces and do all sorts of things to look nice. BUT, it's not all that matters by any stretch of the imagination!!!

[Serioussteve]

This is a great thread, and I'm enjoying all the varying opinions.

I'm old, fat and ugly (and taken), no hope for me! Yet my DP thinks I'm sexy. When I met her I was very slim and thought I was sex on legs (I was 20...), and she was big. I'll never understand this sort of thing!

[Branleuse]

Is that what is meant by league?

I only really find myself attracted to people in a similar social class to me, who are reasonably to highly attractive and who seem a bit of an oddball or arty/creative, but ive pretty much managed to attract or get with anyone ive ever been interested in and made an effort to get, but that doesnt mean a great deal I guess, because if someone had given off signs that they werent my type or were otherwise taken, I probably wouldnt have even developed feelings of wanting to take things further anyway.

I wonder if being out of someones league just means being in a different social class or just having nothing in common, as well as levels of attractiveness

[Babycham1979]

There have been academic studies on this, and it's statistically provable that people tend to be drawn to pairing with those at a similar level of 'attractiveness' (based on assessment of the the same sample group). Apparently, this is as much to do with mating instincts (the right genes) as with subjective beauty.

As Branleuse suggests, I think there are other signifiers. Appearance (teeth, hair, body shape) to some degree, signify not only 'attractiveness', but social class and status. Depressing but true.

We seem to be at a stage in history where the gap between social/material classes is growning, as is evident in health outcomes (obesity levels for example) among society's poorest. You'll notice far slimmer, taller people with whiter, straighter teeth on the King's Road than you will at Westfield any day of the week.

Being individually attracted to someone is only part of the equation. There's an element of social and sexual status that comes with other characteristics that, I think, people are referring to when they talk about 'leagues'. There are certainly people I see who I recognise are convenitonally beautiful, but do nothing for me.

[HPsauciness]

I agree with what babycham says and was coming on to say something similar. Economic theories suggest that we balance our 'assets' against the other persons 'assets' and see whether they match. That's why in general, people are of similar attractiveness, I work at a uni and am amazed by how similar students holding hands are in terms of attractiveness, like they deliberately have an inbuilt 'league' going all the time! But you also get men and women who have something else as an 'asset' which may balance, so money, power, humour, or just being a good provider or economically sound (this old-fashioned notion pops up surprisingly often in women's lists of desirable qualities, which is why Bernie Eccleston can date supermodels but your regular very short guy who isn't good looking cannot.

[LaurieFairyCake]

Yeah, I'm a size 18 but probably look much the same size as you as I'm only 5ft 1

And good looking men are always trying it on with me. I put it down to being smiley and attractive.

He is not out of your league.

[aWowChristmasGuna]

I agree with Babycham too, and HPSauciness. It's refreshing to see it acknowledged to be honest. Like Donatella, in the past I've been reprimanded for suggesting such a thing!

As HPSauciness says, there are other ''assets'' besides money. Confidence combined with being a really decent person is so attractive. Being outgoing and funny! Men think only money bumps them up.

I felt it really accutely after I split from my x. We were both 36. I was stuck at home with two small children and he had a great job, house, car..........