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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Husband crossed a line (long)

156 replies

NCShouldLTB · 24/11/2015 02:26

I was at a work event about 10 days ago that OH was also at. The next day, OH said he thought the dress was a bit too short for a work thing. To be totally honest, I was inclined to agree with him - it tended to ride up which I hadn't noticed before and I was also wearing less opaque tights than I usually would. It turned into a row as he was being dictatorial rather than "friendly word in your ear" about it. I also think there was an element of jealousy in it as he accused me of dressing up for the "dirty old men" at the event. Anyway, we rowed. I went out for the day with the kids. He picked us up. We had a more civilized conversation about it later on after the kids were in bed. I figured to myself I might cut the dress into a top or something as I didn't want it to go to waste if I didn't like the look of it with the proper tights the next time.

Cut to two nights later and I go to get a different dress ready for work and it's not in my closet. Nor is the short dress. He has taken 2 of my dresses. He first tells me he gave them to charity but then admits they are in the shed. I am beyond furious and tell him so, don't get into any debate about the why he took them or anything, just tell him it is in no way acceptable to take my clothes. Tell him it's abusive, controlling etc. He apologises (which is extremely rare for him - to actually say it out loud, he's usually more the type to show he's sorry by actions than words). He says we can go shopping to get me something new. I am not mad keen on the idea - prefer to shop alone and don't really want his input anyway and certainly not him checking hem lengths for respectability in any way, shape or form. However, he is really making an effort so I go along with the idea.

However, the taking of the dresses plays on my mind a lot - it crosses such a terrible line. I emailed my thoughts on it and he agreed it crossed a line but his reply also implied some level of him believing he "had to" to get my attention as I was not taking him seriously. Bleurgh.

Then, this evening, I went to check about another dress of mine that I need to do a bit of mending on. This is a dress that would not look amiss on Kate Middleton - not that this it really matters either way, it was MY dress - and he has taken that too. He did not mention to me that he had taken more than the ones I knew about. And he did not take the opportunity to replace them in my closet in the week or so they were in the shed. In fact, there were 5 more dresses in there, including the one that needed mending. Again, not that it matters because they were MINE - but his point was about not giving the wrong idea in a work environment where there are known lecherous blokes and women who work there who dress in any way provocatively have been asked if they are sleeping with the boss - and only two of these could be considered non work appropriate.

So I am furious again but he is out so we can't thrash it out so I am here. I think he just doesn't like my style at work and think I should dress more office wearish. I disagree but that is not the big thing. The big think is that he thought it was ok to go into my closet and confiscate stuff.

So yes, there are thoughts of LTB in my head especially as there have been a few comments in the past year that have slightly struck a wrong note about his attitude to his role as husband being a controlling one. However, we have been together 11 years, married 8 and have 2 kids. He doesn't have form for this in the previous years.

And i mostly needed to brain dump as he is out so I can't dump on him right now and tell him how bloody wrong he is.

Well done if you got this far.

OP posts:
NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 00:38

Springy I am loyal to him, he has been treated badly. Frankly, his former Dept is a total mess with bad communication, bad feeling and mismanagement. I used to attend Dept meetings but stopped for fear of getting sucked in.
The boss has also been somewhat unfair so I feel divided loyalties in that he's my employer and had given me good employment terms but he's also a meanie (and a philanderer). He brought us both out for dinner to mark the end of OH's contract. Was weird.

OP posts:
NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 00:39

Do I show him solidarity- well, I sympathize and agree with him when he's venting but pull him up if he gets unnecessarily personal or nasty.

OP posts:
toffeeboffin · 25/11/2015 00:46

If my hubby tried any tricks like this I would be dressing like a total slut just to prove he has no control over me. But I'm a bit childish

NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 02:27

The temptation was there toffeeboffin but it would not help the situation at all. I am dressing as I normally do. Haven't changed anything.

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 25/11/2015 03:33

You are saying something a little different now from what you initially said about the number of dresses he admitted to taking, and what you understood of how many he had taken. Or maybe I am being a bit thick.

I go to get a different dress ready for work and it's not in my closet. Nor is the short dress. He has taken 2 of my dresses. He first tells me he gave them to charity but then admits they are in the shed.

Did you confront him specifically about two missing dresses?

Then, this evening, I went to check about another dress of mine that I need to do a bit of mending on. This is a dress that would not look amiss on Kate Middleton - not that this it really matters either way, it was MY dress - and he has taken that too. He did not mention to me that he had taken more than the ones I knew about. And he did not take the opportunity to replace them in my closet in the week or so they were in the shed. In fact, there were 5 more dresses in there

It seems from this that at the earlier confrontation you had the impression that there were only two dresses and it was only after you found others missing that you found out the truth.

As for the 2 vs 5 dresses - that was more me not grasping the full extent of what he had done, I think. I went looking for one dress and it was not there so then I noticed the short dress was gone too. He then admitted he had gone through my clothes and taken what he thought was not suitable. I assumed it was just the 2 but then discovered more. So there was no explicit claim that he had only taken two and I didn't ask, I assumed it was only two until I went looking for this other one. Getting a bit bogged down in detail there but I don't think he deliberately omitted to mention the other dresses - he said he had taken some.

In light of the drip feed your H is giving you, I think you should be far more suspicious of him, more open to the idea that he may have more passwords than you know about, or that he has been up to no good online - it could have stopped short of an affair. He could be watching porn or doing webchats or all sorts of extra marital stuff.

You most definitely should turn off the Find My Friend app.

oh, and this morning he thought I was wearing one of the ones from the shed when I wasn't. Admittedly, I already had my coat on by the time he asked but it just showed how arbitrarily he had taken them!
You should have kicked him out on the spot.
He thinks he has won this battle.
He has not heard your fury at all. He has not heard what you have told him about where his rights end and yours begin. He is not taking you seriously at all. This morning;s incident was a power play on his part to show you who is boss.

It doesn't just show how arbitrarily he had chosen the dresses. He is still trying to control what you wear. He thinks he has a right to dictate to you what you wear. That is what this incident showed.

You have a huge problem on your hands.

A man who bears grudges, thinks others are holding him back in work, and seeks to control what his wife wears has a set of behaviours that are found in certain personality disorders.

KiwiJude · 25/11/2015 04:42

What an arse.

Is he impotent/having erectile difficulties/dysfunction?

KiwiJude · 25/11/2015 04:42

What an arse!

Is he impotent/having erectile difficulties/dysfunction?

KiwiJude · 25/11/2015 04:55

Ooops

Baconyum · 25/11/2015 06:03

At the beginning of this thread I'd have agreed to you making it clear he was well out of order inc him paying to REPLACE the dresses he took! And a week sleeping on the sofa!

Now? No more pussyfooting at the very least he needs to get therapy, apologise profusely with no qualifications, replace the dresses, never even think of behaving like this again.

But honestly in your shoes? I'd be outta there!

I've seen my mother have over 40 years of this shit. She can barely think for herself any more. And this level of control also started after me and sis were not only born but old enough to notice. I only learnt later that other controlling behaviour happened earlier that my mother hadn't noticed (but her family and friends did. She hasn't been allowed a friend in around 20 years). She won't even buy herself a coffee when out shopping without checking with my father first.

How old are your dc? Do you go out socially without him, away overnight without him, if so how does he behave around those occasions? How does he feel about your friends? Do you have your own bank account? Is he pressuring you to leave your job/suggesting other places of work? Does he pass comment on any other decisions you make?

I agree with the pp who said this isn't one red flag it's several!

Bigpants4 · 25/11/2015 07:07

Are the dresses in the shed still?

Sorry I'm a bit slow!

BathtimeFunkster · 25/11/2015 07:36

He asked this morning about whether I was wearing one of the shed dreads shows me he knows I completely reject any claim he thinks he has to tell me what to wear.

Confused

How does it show that?

What it really shows is that he still thinks he has a right to an opinion on what you wear.

And it also shows that you agree with him.

It is not normal for a man to be querying his wife's clothing choices like that.

But you have been trained well.

Thinking of any past control issues- it is when he feels I am not listening to him or taking on board his point of view. Being dismissive rather than actually engaging and letting him know "yes I hear you but I think x".

But that is controlling.

He has no right to your rapt attention when he's being controlling or to have his views "taken on board" when he is trying to assert his authority over you.

Forcing you to engage with his controlling attitudes is a form of control.

He has been training you for years.

In the past, once I have made that clear, agreeing to disagree has generally been fine.

You can't know that now.

A man who steals your things to control your choices is not someone you can trust to "agree to disagree" on the tiny matter of your right to personal autonomy.

For now you need to presume this is the first time he was caught asserting control in an underhand way.

Given that he clearly doesn't accept that taking your things was wrong there is no reason to think this is the first time.

He was quite unfortunate to be caught (twice) this time.

mix56 · 25/11/2015 08:08

But why didn't he replace them after the first confrontation? or at least replace the other ones that you hadn't already noticed were missing ? I would have told him to replace everything immediately (once he had taken them to the cleaners). So what else is missing? shoes? tops? anything tight fitting?
why not just dress you in a Hijab ?

These dresses, are all stuff you have had for ages.
Something is changing. he needs confrontation. (& help)
He needs to get back to work pronto, to regain self esteem & have better things to do with his time.

Eekaman · 25/11/2015 08:24

Please pass a message on from one bloke to another

  • pal, you are being a dick. Sort yourself out.

Good luck op.

ThumbWitchesAbroad · 25/11/2015 11:33

So what he's really saying to you is "I know I'm controlling but the only problem here is you refusing to submit to it" - yes? That's bad. And I know you know it's bad, but I just wanted to agree with you.

I can't believe he doesn't get how bad it truly is. :(

MerryMarigold · 25/11/2015 14:45

In Morrisons today they had opaque tights. Thought of you, OP!

GruntledOne · 25/11/2015 15:01

I don't really understand why he said you should go shopping for something new: once he'd returned the clothes you didn't need replacements. It sounds as if he was saying that he wanted to buy something that would be preferable in his eyes.

Equally, I don't understand why he asked if you were wearing one of the shed dresses - it does sound like he was checking up on you. Did you ask him why, and if so what did he say?

MrsCampbellBlack · 25/11/2015 15:12

I hope you don't listen to the archers OP as it sounds like your husband is pulling a Rob Titchener on you.

Was your husband totally without fault in the troubles he experienced at work? I just wonder if he was difficult there too.

Atenco · 25/11/2015 16:54

Another one here wondering if the controlling behaviour has been so subtle until now, that you have no realised how much it has affected you or if this is the start.

Good luck OP

springydaffs · 25/11/2015 18:10

The boss ...he's ... a philanderer

Erm perhaps that's where this shit is coming from. He's probably watched his boss knock off endless women, probably been surprised at the type of women who go for it, worried you might be in his sights next.

I just can't see that after 11 years this guy is your classic abuser/controller. It really would have been apparent before now. He's being a dick, as pp so perfectly put it, but it looks like it is entirely out of character. I do think he's lost the plot.

NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 19:28

Gah - lots to catch up on here.

I got the dresses from the shed. I totally agree that he should have returned them, that would have showed remorse. They are in my wardrobe.
Shopping trip has not been mentioned again.

He is NOT having an affair/watching porn/having erectile dysfunction etc. etc. This is a serious thing but it's not related to infidelity or sexual performance. It is him trying to control me and not grasping how unacceptable it is. I think the context of this is him being out of work and having had a rotten time in the last 2 years at work where all sorts of snakiness went on. I also think that it coming out in this way, rather than another, is his cultural upbringing - expecting to be the provider and that type of male stereotype so not earning has rattled his self-worth a lot. Whatever the context, I need to feel from him that he knows it was unquestionably not an ok thing to do before I can move on.

I have sent an email to say that I get the impression he may still think that his actions were justified due to his frustration. Have made it clear that this makes me feel sick and frightened and that this is not settled. I will hammer this home to him in the firmest terms.

OP posts:
NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 19:45

Bathtime It's definitely the first time he has taken stuff, I know where my stuff is and what I have. I do know that agreeing to disagree has worked out in the past because it's been about things like taking a trip or where our money goes so I know what happened after those disagreements!

For this bit:
"He asked this morning about whether I was wearing one of the shed dreads shows me he knows I completely reject any claim he thinks he has to tell me what to wear.

confused

How does it show that?"
I mean that he thought I was wearing one of the dresses he took so he knew that I wasn't going to not wear them because of what he said, IYSWIM. He didn't ask nastily...more in a jokey tone.

And about the engaging with him - I do think that both of us have a right to be listened to by each other. So I don't mean that I shouldn't have been dismissive of him saying "don't wear that dress" but he does have the right to mention his concerns. Like, I advised him to wear a tie to an interview when he was reluctant. We discussed it. I understood that he might not want to for his reasons etc. etc. In the end, he did wear a tie but was dead against it at the start because it would be a false image of him and the like.

I do feel we will work this out and that him going back to work will put his controlling crap behind us but this is not being swept under the carpet at all.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/11/2015 19:56

I really hope that this ends up being the trigger for your DH to open up and realise/admit/deal with just horrendously the past few years have affected him. Obviously he needs to understand and accept none of it was justified but it seems clear that he is far from ok/well/coping and some heartfelt honesty from him may help both of you both forward stronger.

Flowers
NCShouldLTB · 25/11/2015 20:01

You know, I think I haven't let him know how much I know it has affected him too because when he talks about how terrible the work environment is, I feel like I need to minimise that as I will be continuing to work there.

However - a side issue for dealing with after...

OP posts:
RandomMess · 25/11/2015 21:00

But how work treats you and makes you feel is valid. How work as treated him and has made him feel is also valid.

It sounds like it has been utterly awful for him but indirectly you've been telling him his feelings aren't valid - that must be a very lonely place for him?

I had the reverse - DH & I worked at the same place, I was being treated awfully he never said anything to me. Never have I felt so abandoned by my DH. He didn't need to do anything but I really needed him to validate how awful certain people were being to me and what it was doing to me.

It massively contributed to a near split tbh! I also now when I'm not "well" I do get fixated on things and frustrated about unimportant stuff. Just a few more thoughts to throw in there but I think he's just going through a complete "headfuck" with his former workplace and he's taken out his paranoia etc. on you.

Still doesn't make it okay though! I think you've may have some potentially difficult conversations to have, perhaps we you are told he feels let down by you? Rational and emotional responses rarely make for an easy life.

ThirdThoughts · 25/11/2015 23:29

Whilst being aware he has been trying to control you and being firm about your boundaries is a good thing. Do be wary of getting drawn into the unhealthy dynamic of staying and battling with this issue over and over again, trying to get validation/acknowledgment/remorse from him that you are right. This power struggle can end up being a trap too where you end up devoting too much of yourself into his power games, further feeding his ego and remaining there, having your red lines crossed repeatedly and getting used to it so long as you feel you win the moral high ground or 'understand' him than just getting the hell out and moving onwards and upwards with a life where he is no longer the sun you are in orbit around. You are your own star.

The only winning move is not to play.

You think you 'won' when he thought you would wear something he disapproved of and had stolen back. But though there might have been doubt in his mind, you hadn't. That you wouldn't have chosen to wear it anyway doesn't matter, as far as he is concerned, you complied. The fact he asked you belied his on going belief that he has a right to comment and police. It was none of his business.

It is great that you don't intend to comply with his attempts to control you. But don't underestimate how much you could be worn down by his testing/crossing your boundaries over time, how much harder it is to leave someone when the little encroachments seem smaller compared to this one if you stay for it, how much energy policing his controlling instinct will cost. A relationship shouldn't be like that, you shouldn't need to tell him that you alone decide what is appropriate for you to wear.

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