Husband crossed a line (long)

[NCShouldLTB]

I was at a work event about 10 days ago that OH was also at. The next day, OH said he thought the dress was a bit too short for a work thing. To be totally honest, I was inclined to agree with him - it tended to ride up which I hadn't noticed before and I was also wearing less opaque tights than I usually would. It turned into a row as he was being dictatorial rather than "friendly word in your ear" about it. I also think there was an element of jealousy in it as he accused me of dressing up for the "dirty old men" at the event. Anyway, we rowed. I went out for the day with the kids. He picked us up. We had a more civilized conversation about it later on after the kids were in bed. I figured to myself I might cut the dress into a top or something as I didn't want it to go to waste if I didn't like the look of it with the proper tights the next time.

Cut to two nights later and I go to get a different dress ready for work and it's not in my closet. Nor is the short dress. He has taken 2 of my dresses. He first tells me he gave them to charity but then admits they are in the shed. I am beyond furious and tell him so, don't get into any debate about the why he took them or anything, just tell him it is in no way acceptable to take my clothes. Tell him it's abusive, controlling etc. He apologises (which is extremely rare for him - to actually say it out loud, he's usually more the type to show he's sorry by actions than words). He says we can go shopping to get me something new. I am not mad keen on the idea - prefer to shop alone and don't really want his input anyway and certainly not him checking hem lengths for respectability in any way, shape or form. However, he is really making an effort so I go along with the idea.

However, the taking of the dresses plays on my mind a lot - it crosses such a terrible line. I emailed my thoughts on it and he agreed it crossed a line but his reply also implied some level of him believing he "had to" to get my attention as I was not taking him seriously. Bleurgh.

Then, this evening, I went to check about another dress of mine that I need to do a bit of mending on. This is a dress that would not look amiss on Kate Middleton - not that this it really matters either way, it was MY dress - and he has taken that too. He did not mention to me that he had taken more than the ones I knew about. And he did not take the opportunity to replace them in my closet in the week or so they were in the shed. In fact, there were 5 more dresses in there, including the one that needed mending. Again, not that it matters because they were MINE - but his point was about not giving the wrong idea in a work environment where there are known lecherous blokes and women who work there who dress in any way provocatively have been asked if they are sleeping with the boss - and only two of these could be considered non work appropriate.

So I am furious again but he is out so we can't thrash it out so I am here. I think he just doesn't like my style at work and think I should dress more office wearish. I disagree but that is not the big thing. The big think is that he thought it was ok to go into my closet and confiscate stuff.

So yes, there are thoughts of LTB in my head especially as there have been a few comments in the past year that have slightly struck a wrong note about his attitude to his role as husband being a controlling one. However, we have been together 11 years, married 8 and have 2 kids. He doesn't have form for this in the previous years.

And i mostly needed to brain dump as he is out so I can't dump on him right now and tell him how bloody wrong he is.

Well done if you got this far.

It could, however, be him projecting re: rumour spreading as the bitchiness in the workplace (he used to work in the same place, I think I mentioned that upthread) really got to him and he began to think the worst of people.
So it could be that when he noticed someone was wearing a different style of clothing or whatever, he would think "hmm, what are they up to?"

Has he got you on find a friend? I'm just wondering hiw be would know about it and, by any chance, is he tracking you?

How will you know if he means any new apology given that he pretended to be remorseful before when he very clearly was not?

Worth looking at StayWithMe's suggestion there.

I would also take a look at his phone and computer use. 'The devil finds work for idle hands' after all. There is plenty of online mischief someone could get up to without ever leaving home.

He may be not secretive about phone/passwords, etc., but he admitted to taking two dresses when the number was actually five. In other words, do you know all his passwords?

Your last paragraph there points in another direction -- it is one thing to think something to yourself in the quietness of your own head, to watch out for backstabbing, etc. but it is another thing altogether to talk to someone else to the point where you are aware of his "hmm, what are they up to?" thoughts, based apparently on what they are wearing (presumably among other details). Allowing suspicion of others to take you over only happens if you have lost the plot to some extent.

It is also a problem to still have that sort of thought in your head six months after leaving the place. Most people function well in bitchy workplaces and it doesn't rub off on their personalities outside of work, and certainly once out of that environment they don't retain that mental habit. Same thought, different environment -- what I am saying here is that this is something innate to him, or a developing MH issue, and therefore hard to stop. (And hard to live with).

StayWithMe Yes, he has me on Find a Friend with my consent. I knew that might raise eyebrows when I mentioned it's not a concern of mine. I use it more to find him than he does me.

Bathtime I wouldn't say that he pretended to be remorseful. He voiced an apology which is not something he finds easy so I knew that meant he knew he had crossed a line. He then backtracked a bit with the mention of how frustrated he was, as if that justifies the behaviour. I want to make sure he realises that it was not justifiable. I will know that, I think. It will be as clear to me as the fact that he hasn't fully owned and taken responsibility for his behaviour yet.
At the moment, he is "I know it was controlling but I needed to make you see and you weren't paying attention" sort of stuff.
I am saying "I hear you concerns but I can look after myself in that regard and, either way, it was not acceptable to take my clothes as a way to get my attention or make a point"

mathanxiety - cross posted.
With respect to his computer use, I have all his passwords. He has been working on various things that needed tying up from his job at my workplace and honestly, an affair isn't something that worries me at all.
He is a grudge bearer, he still has to be in touch with the boss to finish some stuff and so he is still upset with the toxic (to him - my work is generally separate from the bitchiness and I stay away from it but he had to be right in there) atmosphere and was very affected by it. There are people in there blocking his work getting completed and without going into too much detail, there are some people who seem to be a clique who can get the boss to do anything while others are just in the bad books. We know for a fact that one of these people bad mouthed OH to others. It was and continues to be pretty nasty in that regard for those who are involved. As such, he does question peoples motives and the like and I assure him that I am pretty much in another world from that.

As for the 2 vs 5 dresses - that was more me not grasping the full extent of what he had done, I think. I went looking for one dress and it was not there so then I noticed the short dress was gone too. He then admitted he had gone through my clothes and taken what he thought was not suitable. I assumed it was just the 2 but then discovered more. So there was no explicit claim that he had only taken two and I didn't ask, I assumed it was only two until I went looking for this other one. Getting a bit bogged down in detail there but I don't think he deliberately omitted to mention the other dresses - he said he had taken some.

Is wear opaque tights. I don't really suit any other kind. I'm sooooooo passé.

So yeah, I think he is over-the-top in his paranoia of people at work but I think that it will fade (though he will bear a grudge) and he'll stop fretting about it once his work has been completed there and he starts his new job.
I am not worried about the Find MY Friends thing but might turn off my viewability and see if he mentions it! He has used it twice to find me and OH when he was playing sport and we went on a day out . I had told him where we'd be roughly and he used it so that he could come and pick us up - perfectly pleasant.
He also used it the other evening to see if I was on my way home after a meeting - I have used it similarly for him. He could have texted to ask, of course but then I don't always text, sometimes just check to see if he's left wherever it is yet.

I must say, I am relieved about the army of opaque tights wearers. My thermasensive ones ,or whatever they are called, from M&S are due to arrive soon and I am in a place known for harsh winters so sheer are not happening! When I couldn't find 100 denier without control top or similar, just plain old 100 denier, in H&M, I was a bit upset.

You say he has previously tried to exert authority where he has none over you and you've stamped on it?

There is one very very easy way to stamp on this. Wear nothing but those five dresses for a month.

Don't even mention the other dresses you found. Just wear one to work tomorrow and the next day and the next day. If questioned tell him straight that you are making a deliberate point and he'd better not say a word about it.

Ha, RunRabbit I take your point but it would be cutting off my nose to spite my face as I would bloody freeze - several of them are summer dresses (hence why I didn't notice immediately that they had been taken when I noticed the others), 1 is a party dress so not wearing that at work and the short one I was a bit on the fence about anyway and am thinking I will turn into a cool top (the day I wore it to the event was it's last chance to see if I did like it or not). So that would leave me with one to wear which, while I do like it, I don't want to wear every day!
Maybe I should just buy lots the exact same length as the red one but in different styles that I do like?!
No, honestly, that kind of aggression is not my style. My cold and enduring fury - until I can see that he has understood the line he has crossed - will be more effective.

he is "I know it was controlling but I needed to make you see and you weren't paying attention" sort of stuff.

Or in other words, "I know it was controlling, but I'm entitled to control you. If you won't do as I say, I will steal from you and tell lies about it."

Not very reassuring.

oh, and this morning he thought I was wearing one of the ones from the shed when I wasn't. Admittedly, I already had my coat on by the time he asked but it just showed how arbitrarily he had taken them!

Bathtime - exactly, not reassuring hence why I am still fuming and discussing rather than skipping off into the sunset with this resolved.

I have told him that I know he was really angry but it was STILL NOT OK to take my dresses it was WRONG. etc. etc.
If I don't hear some inkling that he can see my point of view, I am on pre-LTB territory.

An adult that you have to train not to control you.

Who keeps trying to assert "authority" over you, and you keep having to push back and draw lines and then force them to (pretend to) accept those lines.

What a wonderful life partner.

Who is really being trained here?

That's a lot of energy you're wasting trying to prove a very basic point to a grown man.

I have told him that I know he was really angry

Why was he angry?

Because of what you wore?

Because you didn't bother listening to him making up reasons to complain about your clothes?

The controlling behaviour started BEFORE he stole your clothes.

He was querying your wardrobe choice this morning.

There's nothing "arbitrary" here.

He only took what he (correctly) thought he could get away with. He objects to you choosing your own clothes and style.

Bathtime speaks my thoughts, too.

Start thinking about any other ways he has tried to control you (assert his authority) and see if you can see a pattern.

Re: opaque tights. What utter tosh! They will never be "out of fashion" because they are a staple of clothing.
I can hearken back to articles in the 80s about wearing opaque tights!
I personally prefer winter tights than opaque because they're comfier.

The point is, if you wanted to wear hot pants you can .
THEN he can say its provocative, he can say you are his wife & you are flashing your body around the office, or he knows X Y or Z have a reputation for having affairs, he can say its not flattering, you look fat or you look like a tart, he can be insecure, he can say he doesn't like it. it's up for discussion.
BUT you can still wear what you want. in this case, he has decided to hide your dresses, & stop you being YOU.
& the wants to choose what you wear....because he thinks you are flirting & is insecure. he doesn't trust you.

Admit I have been completely baffled by this.

But. From what you've said, where you work is, in his eyes, teeming with snakes who are fucking him over big time. And there you are, blithely in their midst. It sounds that he feels extremlevel.hreatened by these people to the point he's losing the plot re he perhaps feels they would 'steal' you - in his paranoia/threat he may feel they would specifically target you in order to fuck him over all the more.

Could be why he is desperate you are 'covered' - in exactly the sense that eg Muslim women are covered, curiously - because he feels they have power over and could well target what is important to him. They've been successful with everything else....

Would he, do you think, be able to be honest with you - or indeed himself - about how he truly feels? Eg how deeply threatened he feels. From what you've said it looks like you perhaps haven't taken seriously how threatened he may feel - you sound dismissive about it (?). The twiddling on your phone when he was trying to tell you, perhaps crablike, how upset he was could've driven him over the edge.

But of course MAJOR clanger to do what he's done. I'm not excusing what he's done. It may be crossed wires/desperation. Completely and alarmingly inappropriate, of course, and no excuse but could be a reason. He's clearly flipped on some level.

Just a thought.

You're basically suggesting PTSD, springy. Which is possible, I suppose, if he was seriously shafted by NC's colleagues. I had it after simultaneous abuse by employer and husband. BUT it's still not within a partner's power to fix if so, neither is it her responsibility to tolerate abusive behaviours whatever the source.

If he's got PTSD he needs a psychiatrist. I can see that going well ...

No, of course you shouldn't tolerate this op. It's outrageous, completely unacceptable.

Not sure what you mean about a psychiatrist not ' going well', garlick?

Though, incidentally, a therapist could just as well work with PTSD, or trauma, op.

springy Yes, your thoughts echo a lot with how he is.

What he has done is not ok and I cannot excuse it unless I see that he understands how deeply wrong it was.

However, he definitely see me as in with a nest of vipers and a possible target for vitriol. And I do think me twiddling on his phone when he was saying this flipped him.

Again- not excusing and he needs to see that he flipped.

PTSD is a bit strong for it, I think but it has damaged him.

I think I need to discuss and tease that out with him but maybe outside the issue of YOU ARE NOT ENTITLED TO DICTATE WHAT I WEAR TO WORK OR OTHERWISE.

I think this thread has nearly run its course until I speak to him again properly. I will try to update as I really appreciate you lot talking it out with me on here - has helped me clarify things and work through it so I can be calm in response to him.

He asked this morning about whether I was wearing one of the shed dreads shows me he knows I completely reject any claim he thinks he has to tell me what to wear.

Thinking of any past control issues- it is when he feels I am not listening to him or taking on board his point of view. Being dismissive rather than actually engaging and letting him know "yes I hear you but I think x". In the past, once I have made that clear, agreeing to disagree has generally been fine.

Are you, do you feel, loyal to him in how they've fucked him over? If so, do you show him your loyalty/solidarity?