I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Thank you all, so much.

I'm feeling sad today. Could I have a wee hand hold?

My in-laws are staying until Monday morning. We haven't told them that we've split (H's choice, which I respect). But it means I'm sleeping on a mattress on DS2's floor and making sure that my bedding is tidied away before he wakes up in the morning.

He's asked for a trial separation, with 50:50 care of the DCs. The plan is that the DCs will stay in our house full time, and we will take it in turns to be with them (exact days still to be decided). We will rent a 2 bedroom flat somewhere local, and whoever isn't with the DCs will be in the flat. Is that a crazy idea? It would give the DCs much more stability, and could give us a lot of flexibility in how we parent them (and cost less too). I'd need to enforce clear boundaries though.

H and I are meeting tomorrow to discuss practicalities. He wanted to defer making any decisions until after Christmas because he thought we were rushing things. I told him that either we work together or I take actions alone, but either way waiting any longer isn't an option. I'm going quietly mad at home, every time I'm in his physical presence.

He asked me whether we would be splitting up if he'd continued to lie rather than start telling me the truth. Which I found really chilling, because it shows that he still sees lies as a fall back when the truth is too hard.

He also told me that, right up until Saturday night he thought it would all work out in the end. For example, he told me more than a week prior to that, that he had categorical proof that one of the things I'd found out was untrue, filed in a box in the attic. But he didn't go into the attic to find the proof to show me. So either it doesn't exist any more (quite possible, given it relates to events almost 9 years ago, but at least tell me if so), or it never existed, or he couldn't be bothered to find it.

I don't think he really believes that it's over.

The house thing might work in the short term but not lt. What if you want to bring someone back to the flat?
Can you trust him with your post? Your personal things?
Who gets to decorate etc.?

But as a starter see how he gets on with 50:50 before you make any decisions.

I wouldn't do the shared care. People with more experience will be able to articulate it, but you will never have your own space. You will always be in a space shared with him and he will always be encroaching to talk, to engage (lie?).

I think it will be confusing for the kids. How much does he do now?

Oh my gosh, that sounds like a horrendous idea. YOU need a proper full time home of your own. YOU need a proper new life away from him. Please don't do this, it is crazy and it's no solution. Just be free of him.

That's what I thought - see if he can actually manage 50:50.

If he can then that's best for the DCs. If he can't, better to know sooner rather than later, and certainly before the financial aspects of our divorce are finalised.

It also gives everyone else a chance to get used to the idea - I've been miserable for months but H and the DCs haven't and it will come as a terrible shock.

The final point, and it's a selfish one but H does know about it, is that the longer we're married the more assets we accrue which will be split between us when we divorce. It might even, ultimately, be possible for each of us to buy our own small one-bedroom flat, and still keep the family home until the DCs are grown.

overnow,

re your comments:-

"H and I are meeting tomorrow to discuss practicalities. He wanted to defer making any decisions until after Christmas because he thought we were rushing things. I told him that either we work together or I take actions alone, but either way waiting any longer isn't an option"

This man will continue to put you over a barrel in terms of power and control so long as you have anything to do with him. He still thinks you are not being at all serious about actually leaving him.

I would start divorce proceedings asap and not wait until after Christmas (on a wider note the busiest months for solicitors is January mainly because people put off separating due to Christmas).

I think you are still being far too accommodating here and I would tell his parents that you are going to separate. He's not sleeping on the floor is he?.

Re this comment:-

"The plan is that the DCs will stay in our house full time, and we will take it in turns to be with them (exact days still to be decided). We will rent a 2 bedroom flat somewhere local, and whoever isn't with the DCs will be in the flat. Is that a crazy idea?"

And whose idea was that, his mainly?. Its completely and utterly mad, particularly the first sentence. It will confuse them no end. You need a complete separation, not a partial one. Am certain too a Solicitor would advise against doing this as well. He is more likely to be the one who has to move out of the family home.

Get decent legal advice asap and start proceedings. Free yourselves from this abusive individual.

On a wider level I hope you have looked at enrolling on and doing the Freedom Programme run by Womens Aid.

He does 50:50 now.

But we're organised so that he does the morning shift with the DCs, and I do the evening shift.

I catch the 5:30am train into work and am at my desk for 6:40am, but leave at 4:30pm. He catches the 8am train and is at his desk for 9:30pm, and leaves at 6:45pm most nights.

40 isnt too young to start a new relationship. 40 youre in your prime!

kick out the deadwood. The trust is gone

The alternative is that we have to keep living together until the family house is sold.

and divorce doesnt have to harm children if youre sensitive to them about it. Certainly less harmful than growing up in a shit relationship

Given we do 50:50 now, there's no guarantee at all that he would have to move out.

"I've been miserable for months but H and the DCs haven't and it will come as a terrible shock".

Do not kid yourself that your children have not noticed; they most certainly have. They pick up on all the unspoken vibes and you cannot fully hide the truth of your imploding marriage from them.

Your abusive H still does not think you are being at all serious about leaving him. He's happy too at your overall expense. No wonder he keeps messing you about and around as he has done and still does; there's a lot more in this for him (i.e. you to abuse as he sees fit) than there is for you.

No. The alternative is he rents a flat until the house is sold and he has the dc there when he is looking after them. If he has to slerp on the couch when they are there then that is fine.

And good point, why are you sleeping on floor to hide it from his parents?

"The alternative is that we have to keep living together until the family house is sold".

That is not always the case. Have you actually sought legal advice to date re the property?. If not I would seriously do so and asap. Do not leave this until January. Its already dragged on far too long as it is and you have all suffered at his hands.

Yes, I have had legal advice on the house point.

No. The alternative is he rents a flat until the house is sold and he has the dc there when he is looking after them. He refuses.

"No. The alternative is he rents a flat until the house is sold and he has the dc there when he is looking after them. He refuses".

Now why do you think that is?. This is him being bloody minded yet again.

I sincerely hope you do have or will get a good Solicitor who is wise to the manipulations of abusive men like your H or you will be financially screwed over in any subsequent settlement. You do realise as well that he is going to make divorcing him as protracted and difficult as possible. Doing that shows he does have his childrens interests at heart either; the only one he cares about here is his own self.

Of course ge refuses, His wants were more important than yours when you were a couple, that was hardly going to change now you're not!

It is vital to you that you draw clear boundaries and stick to them.

It is vital to your children that you do so. Think of it this way, clear boundaries mean everyone knows how things will be from now on. The only other way is for your children to never be sure of how things will be for them. They will have to get used to it being different this month from how it was last month and next month will be differ to how it is this month and the month after and after and after!

How's that best for them?

Start as you mean to go on because that's exactly what he's doing now, starting as HE means to go on with everyone else having to adjust to what he wants, even though that's not what's best for anyone else except him.

I've emailed my solicitor to get her views too.

My father's love life in his seventies was a legend.

(and respectful. A lot of his exes came to his funeral)

Can I suggest that you step back and get your solicitor to do the negotiating for you. You are used to doing as he tells you.

I really, really, really strongly suggest that you do not agree to anything without running it past your solicitor.

If you rent a flat in his scenario what is to stop him then saying I am not moving out on X y z days. If you want to divorce leave then you move out to the flat and come back to the family home to see the children. Thus placing him and the kids in the house with you in a grotty flat.

DO NOT LEAVE THE HOUSE

You will be playing into his hands.

But I can't stay living in the same house as him. I just can't.

Any why should he be the one to have to move out, when we share care 50:50 and it's my choice to leave him?

As many others have said this is only a choice you can make but is like to just let you know how I felt as a child of two parents that only stayed together because of heir children.

For as long as I can remember I have been jealous of my 3 brothers because as children they got all the family fun. They are all 18 months apart and I was born 5 years later. By the time I was old enough to realise my parents were not on good terms. They argued and we hardly ever spent time as a family (my brothers got that hence why I was jealous). They waited until I had left school to separate because they felt I was old enough to understand. My mum and I moved out but I went off the rails, I never went to college and started staying out all night drinking (which is why I don't drink now Urg)

I wished and wished they had separated when I was young. I would have had two parents that wanted to spend time with me and I wouldn't have had to listen to years of arguments and ignoring each other.

Also I have split from my daughters father, we split when she was 1 and we have been able to become friends again, she has the best of both world. I have a new partner and he has a new partner and we are able to go out all together. I realise that this is not what normally happens but just to show you it can. She is a happy bright little girl and doesn't care that we are not together. Double the presents on Xmas ;)

Lastly. With regards to lying. I remember saying in my first date with my now Fiance that the only thing I will not accept is lying. We've had a few troubles but give him his due he told me and we have worked through it. We have had counselling too but I'm not sure id be able to trust him if he had lied about these things.

You have to do what makes you happy. If you are happy and your children see that they will feed off that. I hate that I spent my teen years seeing my parents unhappy. I really do wish you all the best.

Ps. 40 is not too old to find a partner. My mum had recently just moved in with her new partner and she is 56 xx