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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

868 replies

0verNow · 09/11/2015 06:26

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 05:07

I'm certain, too, that the ONS was a symptom of everything that was wrong in my marriage, not the cause.

OP posts:
elvistal7 · 22/12/2015 05:23

This relationship has been a false one ever since the start. The problem is that if you look around you, everyone has similar relationships which makes it easier to put up with, ignore out of hope that it will change and carry on. The brutal truth is this: Kids prefer non abusive parents to stick together even if they don't have love. So if your relationship does not have physical or verbal abuse to tou or your children, then the brave answer is to say this : let's stay together as co guardians of our kids until the youngest is ...... then we split up. In the mean time, we are amicable house mates who share parental duties. We both need to recognise that we love our children but we don't love each other. Maybe we respect each other as co parents, we want our children to have us in their lives, but we should stop pretending to be lovers and release ourselves from this false emotional bond.

Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 05:39

No. Absolutely not. All that would do would be tie me to many more years of his controlling, abusive ways.

For example - I went to fetch a drink at 1am, and found him coming out of my room claiming he thought it was one of the DCs.

I doubt he'd agree those terms either.

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 05:39

It's not just that I don't love him. I don't like him. And I certainly don't trust him.

OP posts:
Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 06:30

I also think that staying in a relationship without love "for the DCs" sets a terrible example.

OP posts:
DoreenLethal · 22/12/2015 07:19

It certainly is! That is bad advice.

Glad you are sounding more lively and are looking forward to the hotel - it will all be over soon enough, you just have to see this time through as he tries every trick in the book to get back at you.

DistanceCall · 22/12/2015 08:21

The brutal truth is this: Kids prefer non abusive parents to stick together even if they don't have love.

No, actually they don't. Not eventually. Not when they realise that their parents are sacrificing their own lives. Not when they have problems in their own relationships because they have a warped idea of what a relationship is.

Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 08:41

Don't worry - nothing will persuade me that staying with him is the right decision. Not for me, not for the DCs. Not even for STBXH.

OP posts:
Kacie123 · 22/12/2015 08:43

Agree with Distance. DH and I are in our 30s and only beginning to come to terms with emotional abusive childhoods (fine physically, just not otherwise).

DHs parents divorced earlier than the OP because of his dad's issues (which still fucked him up).

I wish my parents HAD divorced because I internalised all their issues and it took years to get to a point with DH where I could consciously combat them. I still get to watch one of my parents bully the other all the time, causing a recent suicide attempt and the general impression of a miserable and half life overall. I hate it and I hate hating them as well.

If there are issues then the big thing is to try and keep communicating with kids. Help them identify their emotions and talk it over. And hold strong yourself to the truth that you ARE doing what's best.

Sadly Over will have to keep steady over the years and wait for her kids to grow up for them to really realise why she did what she did, but it will come in time, I'm sure. I agree with an affair being a common symptom of a shit marriage too, but it's worth discussing this with SHL and seeing what the legal take will be.

My (perhaps inept) advice would be do NOT allow him to make this about your ONS. That's not why you're divorcing and I feel like doing it quickly in the short term could bite you hugely in the arse in the long term...

icandothis64 · 22/12/2015 08:59

Re the petition. Although it won't matter in the long run who is at fault in the petition, nor have any impact on financial order, it will impact the time line. The petitioner can drive thighs forward irrespective of how the respondent behaves. As the petitioner you can apply for the nisi and the absolute many weeks/months before the respondent can. So just be aware of that as he Could delay things substantially. Also. I didn't understand when you said let him discover he might be out of time re ONS. How does that help you other than to delay the process still further S his petition gets thrown out and you have to start everything again.
My advice is keep going with you own petition. If he want to ALSO petition you, let him get in with the it but don't let him get you to agree to this as a joint decision. Men are inherently lazy so he probably won't actually get around to it.
Control your own boat!

pocketsaviour · 22/12/2015 09:12

I'd be interested to hear your SHLs thoughts on agreeing on his grounds. I could see using this as a bargaining point in order to get him to agree financial splits, disclose finances, etc. However I would have concerns as per Ican's post above re him suddenly deciding to drop everything, perhaps positioned as "I've decided to forgive you for your adultery, you faithless hussy" and then you're right back to square one again, minus a few thousand pounds you've already spent on solicitor's fees.

Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 12:07

SHL thinks that we should let him knock himself out.

Best case scenario - he's happy to be back in (the illusion of) control and co-operates.

Worst case scenario - he drags his feet and we file our own petition. As we've already done the work on our own petition, there would be relatively little additional work needed if we have to file it!

OP posts:
mix56 · 22/12/2015 12:19

well I've just caught up & it sounds like ican has the knowledge of how this works. All I can say, is well done, this is moving on, both lots of parents know, the kids nearly know & the divorce proceedings are underway.
SO HAPPY CHRISTMAS.... You are making this happen, you seem in a good place in your head. & so keep you eyes fixed on the target & don't let H's fuckwittery make you deviate....... Bravo !

Original poster
0verNow · 22/12/2015 12:34

You know what? I feel good. This time next year I'll be away from him.

Thank you, all of you, so much.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 22/12/2015 20:16

Yeah for how positive you are realising this decision is.

"I don't even like him" well then there is no other option than divorce is there!

icandothis64 · 22/12/2015 20:39

Oh overnow. I feel like you are my echoSmile. I am completely focused on next Christmas and how fab it will be. My own STBXH is sulking tonight as he has just discovered that mE and the DCs have lots of plans over xmas and won't just be sitting at home making each other miserable.
Mix56. I only know this stuff as I am living myself in the moment sadly. Just applied for the nisi yesterday and received first court date for financials today. It's not until 4/4/16 so it's going to be a long rocky road. WE ARE STRONG CONFIDENT WOMEN AND CAN DO THIS.

ImtheChristmasCarcass · 22/12/2015 22:25

0ver You rock on, sister!

It's all out in the open, everyone knows that needs to know. Now, it's just a matter of time and paperwork!

Original poster
0verNow · 23/12/2015 09:16

His parents have decided not to come for Christmas.

I'm furious. If he'd told them sooner they might have had time to adjust. What a shit.

I'm going to stay at home on Christmas Eve night, so I can see the DCs open their stockings. I'm undecided about the other nights.

OP posts:
icandothis64 · 23/12/2015 10:33

His poor parents. And poor you. There really are no winners are there? I have my parents coming on Xmas day. Thai is the first time they will have seen STBXH since I told them about his behaviour and that I was divorcing him. I think DH actually probably assumes I have not even told them. He is that deluded. Anyway. Have briefed parents to act normal, stay away from contentious subjects and try and keep everything happy and light. Dreading it!
If you can manage it, do try and stay home. I always say that in raising kids what we are actually doing is creating their memories. If you go, this will be the memory they have. Remember that Christmas when mum wasn't there all day? It's really hard but if you can try and tough it out, smile and fake it till you make it!

pocketsaviour · 23/12/2015 10:44

If you cancel the hotel will you still be charged for the room?

Actually either way I would probably keep it for the other nights booked, just so that you have a calm, quiet oasis of peace to go to at bedtime where he cannot follow.

ImtheChristmasCarcass · 23/12/2015 15:15

I can't say I'm surprised. He definitely should have told him sooner AND he probably put a terrible 'spin' on it when he did tell them.

Keep the room. You may need it.

Where I live, most hotels are kids under 18 stay free. Would your kids consider it a 'treat' to stay in a hotel overnight? OR would arsehole stbx be willing to use the room one of the nights and you the other?

nauticant · 23/12/2015 16:54

If you can manage it, do try and stay home.

Maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't be surprised if he's put off his parents in the expectation that this means you'll spend Christmas at "home". Depends whether you are wary about giving out a "business as usual" message.

Original poster
0verNow · 24/12/2015 16:57

The DCs and I had a lovely day with my parents.

It's a two hour drive away. We had to stop three times for the toilet. DC1 and DC3 both told me that STBXH forced them to drink two large cups of squash just before I put them in the car, and DC1 wants me to ask him not to do that again because it was so uncomfortable.

I'm not sure what to make of that. Surely even STBXH wouldn't have done something so cruel to our children just to make my journey a little bit harder?

OP posts:
Kacie123 · 24/12/2015 17:35

Well, not to demonise the guy ... but yes, if he wouldn't normally do that before journeys, then that sounds possible. Maybe he'd thought more about inconveniencing you than being cruel to them though (he knew you wouldn't torment them by not pulling over after all!) also gives him a chance to get to you if you "nag" about it.

Glad you had a lovely day though Smile not too much longer now Over and you'll have more happy days together away from his influence.

Original poster
0verNow · 24/12/2015 18:28

I really think he might have done it on purpose, you know.

He asked me to text to say we'd arrived safely, which I did - just those 2 words. Usually he'd read but not reply. Today he texted straight back asking how the journey had been. I just replied "Fine", and he replied again to say how pleased he was that it had been smooth. I can't emphasis enough how out of character those texts are - I think he was fishing.

OP posts: