I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Yes tell everyone yourself. He's not the boss of you.

I'd start with his mother, saying you were surprised to get that email with no reference you and DH splitting up, didn't he tell you weeks ago?

You can't tell the children until housing is sorted? He could sort out the housing issue in a split second by moving out. Or he could completely scupper any plans just like he has been, so you never tell the DC.

Tell people and tell the DC. Force his hand. He's making you dance like a puppet. Take the power from him.

He doesn't want to until things are more clear as to who is moving where. He says I've had the luxury of time to think and he's going to take all the time he needs now.

Sweetheart, please stop considering him in your decisions. If you want to tell his parents, tell them. If you want to tell the children, tell them. And don't ask him about 'deadlines'. Tell him when the deadlines are.

I did say that wasn't happening, and he looked gobsmacked.

Another example of the fact that he feels that all he has to do is wait you out. That if almighty 'he' decides that you are not separating, then it will simply not happen. It's the same motivation behind the 'take all the time he needs' statement. He's trying to wrest control from you. Please, please don't let him.

Tell people and tell the DC. Force his hand. He's making you dance like a puppet. Take the power from him.

This X 1000!! You must take the power. Remember that (unfortunately) you will be dealing with him even after you separate because you have children together. He's going to play these games with access and maintenance if you don't smash him like a stink bug right now! You must show him NOW that you will not be pushed around otherwise you are going to be dealing with his manipulative power-plays until your children are grown.

Telling the DCs needs planning. They will have questions, practical ones like where will he live, will we have to move, when will we see each of you, who will we live with. The more questions you have answers for, the more secure they are likely to feel.

You decide when it's the best time to tell them, absolutely.

The problem is that stbx won't make those decisions and will block OP's attempts to make him do so.

It may just be that the talk with the kids ends up being a bit of "We don't know that right now, but we love you and will make the best decision we can for all of us".

Tell him that you will need to tell everyone by the end of the week, as the kids will have to know as you won't be there at Xmas, ditto in laws.
What is this bullshit about you having "the luxury of time to think". well he had the luxury of time, to lie, to philander.
Once its over, it's over. it's not a "surprise" any more, this post alone is 3 weeks old, he has NO INTENTION of moving, & telling the family the truth.
YOU need to tell him that it will be preferable that he announces the demise of your marriage today, as you will be going round to explain ALL of it to ILs. so that they hear the full story & there is no misunderstanding. & that the children will be told at the on friday. you are telling the school by the end of the week, & all the relavent family.
He may bluster & get nasty, the response, is benign nonchalence. if he gets threatening ring the police.
You have instructed the solicitor. he will get the papers in the near future.
Kick start this thing to get it real.

He is dangling you on a string, my love. You will still be there dangling until January next year, and January 2017, January 2018 ..... unless you take the reins and act.

Of course he wants time to think. That means he wants time for it all to blow over and you to get back in your little box and remember that your role is Obedient Little Wifey. It's the perfect excuse to do nothing at all.

Don't be passive. You're splitting up. You're splitting up NOW,mto your timetable. You won't get co-operation from him, you will just get moves which block you, as far as he can. Don't let him. He has ridden rough shod over for years, it's time to take your life back.

I know. I'm going to tell my parents on Monday (just need to get through DC1's birthday treat this weekend first). It's my DF's birthday this month and I'll take the DCs to visit without H.

The DCs have noticed something's changed. They know I sleep in the spare room now; DC2 has asked several times if I love Daddy as much as I love them.

H didn't come home until gone 3 this morning. Not my business, but I was worried whether he was properly capable of looking after the DCs before work.

Oh dear - thus begin some mind games I'm afraid. He's going to rebel and try and make this difficult (who wouldn't?) and to get your attention and sympathy too.

Well done on getting back on course ... It really looks like your lives can only get better once you're separated.

At least once you've told the kids they will know what's going on rather than feeling uncertain, and you can work on properly reassuring them...

Why wait until Monday to tell your parents? Is it that you think they wouldn't be able to 'fake it' it front of the children or his parents? They could be a great support to you in getting through DC1's birthday 'happy family' charade. Today is only Wednesday, your parents would have at least two days to digest the information. I know I'd be shocked if my son told me he wanted to separate (especially if DiL was abusive like your stbx) but I think I'd be able to pull it together after a couple of days if he asked me to and act nonchalant for a few hours for his sake at a party. That's part of being an adult and a supportive parent.

Of course the DC have noticed. Children, even very young ones, are extremely perceptive to (for lack of a better word) 'atmosphere'. That's why it's best to get things out as soon as possible, even before plans are firmed up. Because it's very likely that the DCs are thinking it's something to do with them, that they've done something wrong.

Other than your concern about his ability to care for the children, you're right, what he does is not your concern. BUT if he's going to make a habit of this and it results in inability (or unwillingness) to care for the DCs I'd suggest you start looking into paid or alternative childcare. The time will come (sooner rather than later) that you will be on your own and will have to sort that out anyway.

Remember that every single thing he does is calculated to bring him to your notice in some way, to force you to deal or 'negotiate' with him. You cannot do that. He feeds off of it and it reinforces to him that he is 'important' to you. This in turn reinforces his belief that you will give up because you 'really cannot live without him'.

he didn't come home till 3...... Good, I hope you said.
"OH, I thought you'd found an apartment" ..... new conquest...... Remember I am announcing the split this w/e. so this is good.

He is trying to get your attention. Don't go there

Tomorrow we're all supposed to be flying to another city - just for the sake of the flight. It's a present for DC1 because none of the children have been on a plane before.

It was booked before we split. H is really looking forward to it. The DCs have really mentioned it to me, although they may have talked to H about it.

I really don't want to go. I'm genuinely unsure whether I can maintain civility for a whole day of enforced close proximity (we're coming back the same day).

Would I be unreasonable to not go? H could either take all 3 or just take DC1. Our youngest is 4, so it's not like he has huge amounts of kit he has to take with him (no nappies, milk, buggies, car seats, etc etc).

Or should I suck it up for the DCs?

The DCs haven't mentioned it to me.

Well, if you want to keep giving your H reasons he can tell himself you're going to stay together you should go.

In your shoes I wouldn't.

He will say I'm being cruel to the DCs.

He will say I should have told him
I wasn't going before now, not just spring it on him.

I'm also slightly worried that he's going to establish a pattern of spending more time with the DCs at the weekend - which he does at present, but only because I'm avoiding him, not them. (Over their lifetimes I've spent more time with them, just not the past couple of months.)

(Namechanged for Xmas. I'm AcrossthePond55)

I think it's a way of making a point to him that you're really getting tired of seeing his face. That you'd rather forego something fun just for the sake of being away from him for even a little while.

I'd say if you can get to him first and if you tell him not to go running to the DCs with 'Mummy doesn't want to be with us', 'Mummy says we aren't going now', or some other shite then I wouldn't go.

Remember Love, what he says no longer matters. You need to get yourself to a point where it flows off your back. That can only be done through practice.

As far as the weekends, there's no reason you can't be spending time with the DCs without him. Make plans, keep them quiet, then take the kids and leave for the day without him. A simple 'No, this is a special day for Mummy and the children. You did XX last weekend with them.' will suffice if he says anything in front of the kids.

You nabbed the best Christmas name!

I've told him that I'm not going tomorrow. He reacted as predicted. But has agreed that I can have them Sunday. So positive overall.

Thank you.

Good for you OP! so glad you won't have to put up with his face all day. On a plane! I can picture Samuel L Jackson with a new catchphrase right now.

"I have had it with this motherfucking twatface on this motherfucking plane!"

I'm struggling to get past the feeling that I'm being unnecessarily cruel. Despite everything he's done. It's the weirdest thing. I fear he'll hate me before this is through.

pocket

Well done Over. Koko

Not cruel, BOUNDARIES. Boundaries make entitled sorts go ape bcs they insist everything goes their way.

So that's your dad and your husband.

Oh Over it's almost definitely going to get worse unfortunately.

Over time you're going to have to work on detaching from worrying about what he thinks, but you can't do that overnight and it wouldn't be sensible to think you could.

Assuming you still care about him a bit and would ideally like him to have a happy life (just away from you and yours) then think of it this way: it would be cruel of you to let him have false hope. He needs to know and keep getting a repeated, hopefully fairly level-headed unemotional message from you, that it's over.

On the other hand - don't start thinking that he deserves baby steps constantly, and don't let your anger at his behaviour become anger at yourself for hurting him somehow. This man has (intentionally or otherwise) been a total arse to you. Keep rereading your OP. Do you think he's worried all these years about you hating him?

Anyway ... Good luck tomorrow and I hope you get some quality time with them on Sunday.

I get it intellectually....

Have we talked about codependency on your threads?

Because you seem chronically incapable of protecting yourself, blinded/paralysed by other people's needs.

Please look at codependency. Codependents are an abusers dream.

Go to CoDA!