I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

Over, it is entirely normal for you to be doubting your own mind. its part EA brainwashing. Once you are away from him slowly you will find peace, & start having confidence to be alone, or not....
However, as was said earlier, its not about finding someone to replace your H, its about you being free, no more being miserable & the DCs learning this same behaviour.
Whether you meet someone afterwards is the last thing on your mind.
I get that you project to the age of 80 & imagine being alone, but what about 80 & still being with him ? you can't even stand to be in the same room now, WHY would you subject yourself to another day of this ?

He's got steaks out of the freezer and has told DC1 he can stay up and eat dinner with us tonight. As a special treat. DH will cook, so I can't refuse.

He's still trying to maintain the facade of happy families.

He's still expecting to do the family shopping if I still do the family washing. He's seemed genuinely hurt that I haven't wanted to eat with him or watch TV with him this past week.

I don't know what to do to get him to start acting like he understands it is over.

Divorce petition?

Seriously, this is what they do. Wear you down by acting as though what you think is irrelevant (in his mind it is).

Plan your next step. Posters have suggested telling people irl. Have you done that? What are you planning to do next?

In these relationships, we become used to being passive. It takes practice to take control of your life back. That practice comes through lots of small decisive steps towards freedom.

But only you can take each step. And each step might feel like the only one you have strength for. It isn't easy. But it is so worth it.

I know you're right. I just need to bite the bullet. I'm scared he'll go ballistic when he receives the divorce petition.

Ok ... so how you can prepare for that then? It's got to happen, it really does.

Can you email your lawyer right now telling her to get in touch at a fixed time next week, so you can predict when he will know?

Meanwhile what can you do if he does go ballistic? If you're scared of him being physical, could you pack an overnight bag for you and the kids until he calms down? Could a friend or family member come and stay the night or something?

Do you have the essentials prepared now - documents etc - for if he turns actively unhelpful?

(Others might have way, way better advice here - but being scared of his reaction shouldn't stop you from acting at all)

Right. I've finally emailed my SHL and asked her to issue the draft divorce petition. As you say, Kacie123, it's got to happen sooner or later. I have all the essential documents safe at work, and will pack a wee bag tonight just in case, although I really don't think he'll be physical at all.

It's habit, OverNow. You've been conditioned to do what he wants so that now that you are no longer at his beck and call you probably feel a bit odd, maybe rudderless too. You're seeking normality, though not the real normality, the normality that you've been living in for too long. Of course part of you is going to want to return to it, it's what you're used to.

Would thinking of him as if he were a cigarette help? You've given them up, but you're so tempted to just fall back into smoking because it's a strong pull and sometimes it doesn't seem that bad really. You know you don't really want to, but your hand is reaching towards that proffered pack..... NO!

Glad to hear you're back on track. Have a nice w/e

You sound well-prepared, OP. Well done for taking another step towards freedom.

Define 'ballistic'. Unless you fear actual physical violence then, you can deal what happens. I know emotional scenes are unpleasant but they are survivable. And in your case necessary if you are to move to the next stage, which is getting your life back. You've got to stop putting obstacles in your own way and just do it. You will never convince him of anything through words, only actions will make him see that you are serious.

As far as 'acting like he understands', he is never going to let go voluntarily. He needs a combination slavey/whipping boy and you've been it for far too long for him to let go easily. And so far, it's working for him, isn't it? You must realize that every concession you make, every time you let him do this it only convinces him that all he has to do is wait you out!

And you can refuse to have dinner. Don't let him emotionally blackmail you with his games. I'd probably tell DC1 that I wasn't feeling well and lie down instead of sitting at the table with stbx. Or just say I wasn't hungry. Same with the laundry/shopping thing. I'd probably tell him to do his own laundry and I'd get in food for myself and DC.

Xpost with you OP. That's what I get for walking away without posting first.

GOOD! You are doing the right thing.

And please don't do his washing!!!

You need to be blunt with him. "I have no desire to spend any time in your company", "No, we are separated as of x of November, no more shared household duties will occur"

Would it be unreasonable to ask him to go out for a bit tomorrow, so I can spend some time with the DCs? Or we could go out and leave him at home, I don't care which.

I'm fed up of skulking upstairs to avoid him, and not seeing them as a result.

Hmm I'd take them out otherwise you're giving him the control by asking him to go out IYSWIM?

Really glad (for your sake) to hear you've emailed her Over

No I don't think it sounds unreasonable, but if I were you I'd be firm about what I wanted and also be careful to cover myself from now on for him throwing any nasty accusations later.

Maybe text to make it clear you're taking them for half the day and giving them back for half a day. "I'm taking the kids shopping and for lunch, we'll be back at X and you can have them for the rest of the day and dinner if you'd like. Or you can go out for the day. Either way I'd like to spend some equal time alone with them." ?

Also I wouldn't be spending all my time skulking - it's still your space too and him telling the kids "mummy's not well right now" or something.

... On the other hand someone else whose actually been through this might be back to contradict this immediately!

(It might also be worth starting a new thread which new people can get straight to the point you're at - "I've just started divorce proceedings against an EA husband, and now X is a problem..." and link to this thread as an explanation?)

I think you don't want to ask him to do anything (except move!). Instead you could make a suggestion, I guess, but you'd have to try to phrase it as if it had nothing to do with you. Maybe "Why don't you go (insert favorite sport or a movie he wants to see)". Otherwise, just get up tomorrow, bundle the children up and leave. Don't give him much notice or you'll find he's getting ready and telling the children that 'we' (meaning all of you) are going out. You need to do what you want without regards to him and giving him as little notice as possible.

How'd it go - did you get to spend some time with the kids today Over?

No, I didn't. I wimped out of picking that battle on that day.

This is new to you, being assertive. It just wasn't a battle worth fighting. That's OK.

You have told the children that you are separating? right ?
It needs to be clear to them too. You hiding upstairs is just fine by him & they won't even notice.
You have GOT to make it clear to everyone, that you are not "playing".
Cook the dinner. and maybe say to the kids, "Your father is catering for himself, as we are now unable to share finances & organisation while waiting for him to find alternative accom...."
"We are going out for lunch, your father is going to look for a flat...."
I KNOW you are expecting him to go loco, believe me, I am not underestimating your dread of a scene. but letting it all go gently is really a charade. it IS going to go nasty, & the sooner you face it, the sooner you can move on..

No, we haven't told the DCs. He doesn't want to until things are more clear as to who is moving where. He says I've had the luxury of time to think and he's going to take all the time he needs now.

Based on the lovely chatty email I've just received from his mum, he hasn't told his parents either.

Would it be unreasonable to set a deadline of telling his parents by rge

...by the end of the week, and the DCs the week after?

He was still talking about doing joint Christmas presents for the DCs last weekend. I did say that wasn't happening, and he looked gobsmacked.

That would be perfectly reasonable.

He needs to get of the habit of thinking he controls what you do and who you speak to. Tell his parents. Tell the kids. Take out a fucking billboard on Putney high street! He doesn't get to force you to keep his secrets any more.