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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

868 replies

0verNow · 09/11/2015 06:26

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

OP posts:
mix56 · 22/11/2015 19:00

Be careful to change your passwords on your phone & computer, empty your internet history & make sure there is NO CLOUD ...... he may well have set up a iCloud (or other) without your knowledge...

0verNow · 22/11/2015 19:04

My phone and laptop are both work ones and corporate-level secure. It's not possible to link my phone to a cloud, for example. Neither could he add key-logger software or similar. For which I'm very grateful. And I change my phone password regularly. At least once a week, sometimes more.

OP posts:
mix56 · 22/11/2015 19:06

Good !

RandomMess · 22/11/2015 19:30

KOKO Flowers

Kacie123 · 22/11/2015 19:45

Hi OverNow - of course, would be happy to - but I should say that I don't know the first thing about divorces/legalese. Don't know if there's a solicitor/unofficial expert peering at this thread who might be able to offer a helping hand?

0verNow · 23/11/2015 08:32

Thanks Kacie - I've PM'd you.

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Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 09:49

Have PM'd you back OverNow, hope it helps Smile

0verNow · 23/11/2015 10:18

I've sent the email.

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0verNow · 23/11/2015 10:19

And thank you for your help and support.

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mix56 · 23/11/2015 11:56

Well done, make sure to keep emails/texts & his replies. This for when he denies he ever said X Y or Z.
He WILL stop being sugary & his false attempts to placate.
He WILL start being nasty & manipulative & threats WILL follow.
Beware, it is part of the standard AE rules book.
Be ready, don't be surprised, & don't underestimate how low he will stoop.
Sending & virtual force shield for you. Keep being strong.

Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:01

Well done Over! Brace yourself - it'll get worse and then it'll get better.

You're doing so well and your boys will appreciate it hugely in the long run too.

0verNow · 23/11/2015 12:12

He has replied. Not sure what to make of it.

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NettleTea · 23/11/2015 12:25

he will say what he needs to try to keep you under his control.

Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:30

Could your solicitor help?

Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:30

What sort of response was it?

0verNow · 23/11/2015 12:33

He's suggesting individual flats - if I could afford it, would that make the idea better?

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Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:37

As in ... You both have flats, the kids live in another house, and you visit that house a few days a week?

No I don't think so. You'd still have that joint house issue. He's missing the point and still trying to keep control.

Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:37

I don't "blame" him for that and am not saying he's evil incarnate or anything absurd - but he won't be able to help it. He's suggesting holding temporary counter measures.

0verNow · 23/11/2015 12:38

He's also saying he won't be pushed into making a decision other than in his own time, and that I've had the luxury of months to think. Which is true.

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0verNow · 23/11/2015 12:39

Yes, that's what he was suggesting. So three different residences - his flat, my flat and the former matrimonial home where the DCs would live.

You're right - it's still just a temporary measure. Not least because I want to buy somewhere at some point, and need equity from the house for a deposit.

(There was also some emotional blackmail which I won't bother you with.)

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Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:42

I don't quite know what to say to that. It's true that you don't want to rush for the hell of it and that this has been an awful jolt to his system.

But plenty of people would say "I want us divorced in X months or less, I want us to live separately before then by X date; your behaviour is abusive (as you've agreed) so you should remove yourself."

Don't let him stall and stall and stall. Keep consistent with your needs. Call your lawyer and ask what dates she thinks are reasonable under the circumstances?

Kacie123 · 23/11/2015 12:43

(Sorry, cross post. Yes - ignore the emotional blackmail, no surprise but must be hard to bear I know. Stay cool, factual and non-emotive if you can)

mix56 · 23/11/2015 12:51

well if you both have flats, then the kids can go to his for the w/e. & you sell the house.
OR,
he takes a flat, the kids go to his for the w/e & you stay at the family home for the stability fo the kids.
He is simply trying to keep a foot in the door, tell him this is about the CHILDREN, within which category he does not feature.

YOU NEED YOUR OWN HOME, he is not, has never been & will never be 50/50 parent. He fucked up, now you don't want to be abused any longer.
Time for him to suck it up. welcome to adulthood.

pocketsaviour · 23/11/2015 12:54

Just catching up on what I've missed.

Then he started calling me 'my love' in every other sentence. I asked him not too (and probably wasn't too pleasant in my tone). He told me he would call me whatever he liked. So I stood up to leave. And he immediately backed down.

This is really good. You have started putting boundaries in place and you have seen that he will submit to them. You now know that you have more power than you thought; you stood up to him and the world didn't fall apart. Be proud of this.

It's not surprising that he sucked you in with the flat share thing, don't feel stupid. He's been messing with your head for years and years, of course you're still going to fall for it occasionally. But again, you told him it wouldn't work for you, and he backed down and came up with a counter offer.

Regarding the two flats business, it is of course his attempt to retain control. No thought to what is best for the DC, just he thinks that if he has to move out, then you do as well, nerr nerr nerr. That said, I would run it by your SHL and see what she thinks. My concern would be
a) it's reducing the matrimonial assets as you'll be renting AND paying mortgage during this notional period;
b) he STILL thinks you're going to "come to your senses" and return to being the obedient little wifey. He thinks if he can give you 6 months, you'll come running back and say "Oh darling, I've been so stupid, now I realise you were right all along. Let's go and see that charlatan marriage counsellor again and he can tell me everything I'm doing wrong, okay? Please take me back!"

This makes me think he'll try to make life as unpleasant as possible for you during this having-two-flats-and-a-house time, so that you'll break under the pressure. EG he will leave the house a complete shit pit, unflushed toilets, no laundry done, basically he will piss all over "your" territory. It also means you can't leave ANYTHING personal at the house because he will find it and go through it (same scenario as sharing one flat.) You'd have to uproot your whole life and possessions, which would be unsettling for the DC.

I would say speak to your SHL about it and get her viewpoint, she sounds like she knows what she's up against here.

0verNow · 23/11/2015 12:57

But plenty of people would say "I want us divorced in X months or less, I want us to live separately before then by X date; your behaviour is abusive (as you've agreed) so you should remove yourself."

He absolutely doesn't accept that his behaviour has been abusive. He'll say he's done a few things wrong, but he still thinks that fundamentally he's been unlucky rather than anything else.

OP posts: