I'm turning into one of THOSE posters...

[0verNow]

...with multiple threads asking for advice about the same situation.

I'm trying to decide whether to end my marriage. I'm not looking for different advice from previous threads, but two of my other threads had to be deleted because DH found them, and the other is now quite long and things have moved on a bit - so I thought it might be better to start a new thread.

In summary, DH and I have been together for 10 years, married for 4 years and have 3 DCs.

There have been three issues in our marriage.

1. Right from the early days of our relationship, DH has been low-level EA. The kind of 'death by a thousand cuts' EA that sounds petty on paper but grinds your love to dust. This is the issue that brought us to counselling in the first place. DH is adamant that he wasn't deliberately abusive, just thoughtless and entitled and self-centred.

Since we started counselling, two more issues have emerged, each much more damaging (in my opinion) than the first.

2. Financial abuse. (I'm the poster whose DH spent £16k on counselling and lied to me about it.) I just didn't see it - in fact, DH had me convinced that I was crap with money. I'm still kicking myself that I was so blind.

3. DH's lies. He has lied about small things, and (at least) two enormous things (that I know of). I think lying is his default setting whenever it's more convenient than telling the truth.

Of these, 2 is largely resolved going forward. I have separated my finances from his, and although I still don't have access to our historic savings DH has offered to add me to all of his accounts.

1 is tricky. DH has been treating me well for 3 months now. I'd be interested to hear whether people think this is a new, improved DH - or just the old one on best behaviour, in which case he's likely to revert to type when he starts to relax.

But 3 is the big one for me. I don't know that I can get passed it.

There is one event which I'm particularly struggling with. It happened in 2007, and DH has lied and lied and lied to me about it. He was even still lying about it after counselling started. He has now given me 4 different versions of what happened, each one painting him in steadily worse light. The last version, which only came out last week because our counsellor forced the position, involved him covering up behaviour at work which was gross misconduct at best, and possibly criminal.

DH says that it all happened more than 8 years ago, and that living through the consequences of his 2007 behaviour has fundamentally changed him as a person.

But from my perspective, it's not 8 years old, it's all new to me. And it's not just the event from 8 years ago, it's the lies he's been telling me ever since. And I'm not at all convinced that he has changed as a person - given the ongoing lies, big and small.

I don't trust him. I still don't know if I've got to the truth about what happened in 2007. I don't know if there are other things still to discover.

If I'd known the truth 8 years ago, I would have left him. I'm very clear about that. But we didn't have DCs 8 years ago, and now we do (DC1 was conceived in the immediate aftermath).

I'm also very clear that I would not be with him now were it not for the DCs.

Am I being unreasonable to end my marriage over something that happened 8 years ago? Will my DCs hate me for splitting up their home?

I just want to do what's for the best, primarily for the DCs but also for myself.

OK. OK. I hear you all. I'll tell him I've changed my mind about the house-sharing. But not today or tomorrow; it's DC1's birthday weekend, we have his party and my in-laws staying. Monday.

That's a real relief to hear!

Hope you all manage a "nice" birthday weekend.

However, are you SURE he doesn't know about this thread? You could get it moved?

KOKO

With all the money he's got stashed away that you still don't know about he probably has enough money to buy a 2nd family home...

He is going to do whatever he can to cling onto the façade of a family without doing any of the work. I mean he thought £16k would work, he now thinks shared care will work. He is going to string you along every step of the way as much as possible. He is still patronising you at every opportunity.

He's going to give up work, how can he afford that unless there is even more money that he is not planning on sharing with you...

I think he is more financially abusive than you have already realised.

He says that our savings are only £30k and was all given to us by his parents. (Sorry, I know "only" is tactless to those who are struggling, but I mean in comparison to his salary and how little I know about his spending.)

He didn't say he would give up working altogether, just that he would give up this job and find another less demanding one.

I agree that he's hanging on to the facade of family life though. And I agree that doing so would be at the expense of my wellbeing.

So he spent a third of the family savings on seeing the marriage coach - and you think that is believable???? That smells of a huge fat stinking rat to me. TBH £30k of savings when you are high earners with the huge cost of surviving in London isn't really much is it - if one you got made redundant it's not going to keep you going for a longer than a few months

Anyway a forensic accountant will soon establish what is what via the SHL. I would also tell the idiot that the more honest and accommodating he is during the separation the cheaper the divorce will be - will be interesting which his strongest motivation keeping up the lies or saving money!

Also it doesn't matter how savings occurred they are marital assets so don't let him wangle that it was his parents money. Who looked after the dc so he could work - you, how much would a nanny, housekeeper, cleaner and babysitter have cost him. How much did his lies cost you in earning potential/career potential?

I could swing for him on your behalf! You really are in the FOG - the fact that he has admitted he still thinks he should have kept up with the lies and sees nothing wrong in that. He is as slippery as they come...

So in that case he unilaterally decided to spend his your entire life savings of £16k on a charlatan counsellor without consulting you or thinking that perhaps there was a better option/ cheaper option.

he lies

I'm pretty sure whatever he says If you take the opposite to be closer to the truth you'd actually have more of a measure of him.

He says I didn't do the work stuff he did

He says he wants 50/50 residence he probably doesn't want the day to day household stuff but 50/50 means no maintenance

he lies

Look up the Freedom Programme. It will do you the world of good if you did it. The scales will fall from your eyes.

Why do I feel like the bad guy?

Because he's a manipulative shit and you (sadly) have issues which make you easy to manipulate.

Long term you're going to see the benefits of this for you, your kids, and probably him too!

Because it's the role you have played your whole life.

It's the role he is desperately trying to keep you in.

You feel the bad guy because for once you can see things clearly and putting yourself and your dc first instead of last.

KOKO

Yeesh, that came out way harsher on screen than it sounded in my head.

I just meant that he knows how to manipulate you, and he's known how since you were very young really! shutting up now

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You feel like the 'bad guy' because he knows how to make you feel like the bad guy. And he's trying even harder to make you feel that way because, for him, there is so much at stake.

Just remember that in this situation, you have much more to gain than you have to lose by standing your ground. He has much more to lose than he has to gain by you standing your ground. Just think about all you do for him, think about all you haven't done for yourself because of him. That alone should answer any questions about why he wants you to feel like the bad guy.

Right now, you are going to have to grow a hard shell, really fast. It might not be easy to go from being the 'door mat' to being the 'iron door' but you'll just have to dig deep inside. I know the strength is there.

I would be very suspicious of anything he says regarding finances. Very suspicious indeed. I know it's been mentioned upthread about getting info on finances, but I'll stress it again. As soon as he realizes that you will NOT be put back in the box you can expect that he will start draining accounts and hiding assets and/or income (if he hasn't already started). He may very well get himself a lower paying job on purpose with the intent to return to higher wages after settlement. That's why you need to suss out financials NOW. Be ruthless. There can be no feelings of 'spying' or 'sneaking', you MUST protect yourself. Talk to your solicitor about a forensic accountant.

Tax returns*, bank account statements/passwords/numbers, even if all you can find are the names of the banks write them down. Wage pay slips, pension account statements. Investment portfolio companies and statements. Are there any benefits or credits received where income might have had to have been proven? Don't be afraid to go through drawers and cabinets, it's no time to be squeamish. Do you have online access to accounts? Would his parents hide money for him? Siblings? Look for odd transfers.

*I don't know anything about UK taxes. Do couples file joint returns or separate. I know that here (US) they can be a wealth of information!

I do his tax returns. Sadly, they show his income but not what he spent it all on.

I'm struggling to stay polite to him today. Of course I can't share space with him; I'd go crazy. What was I thinking?

He will tell you as you will have a 2 bed flat you will take care of your room and he will do his but I guarantee you you will end up cleaning to bathrooms and two kitchens stocking two fridges and doing all the kids laundry.

Put the house on the market asap. Sell yo. You both move.

are entitled to stay in the marital home until the youngest is 18 HE should be moving out. Then you can sell the house & split the proceeds, this can be tied up in the divorce settlement.

Afaik this is only true if you are the resident parent. This does not apply in 50-50.

Sell up. Not yo.

It may be a wrench but it is the only sensible thing to do.

That's OK. Right now, what he's spent is gone and there's not much you can do about that other than getting bank or credit card records and that's part of the divorce paperwork, he'll have to submit that to the judge. But you DO want to know the sources & amounts of his income and that should be on the tax returns.

Another thing, if you aren't doing so, you need to start a journal to record your 'discussions' with him. For example, his remark about getting a lesser paid job. That could be implied to be a 'threat' as far as 'play nice or you won't get as much in maintenance'. I also think you need to consider 50;50 as far as that goes, too.

Ffs get this thread moved

springy ?

Or a new one

People are giving essential advice and the pathological liar is reading it.

I'm going to email him tomorrow. I know it's cowardly to do it that way, but I just can't face talking to him in person.

email is good actually, because it leaves a paper trail

Yy, good to have a trail, but be extra careful because of tone etc, and avoid any emotion at all or anything he could hand to a manipulative solicitor.

There might be someone here you could pm if you need a double-check first.

Bear in mind he may well be reading this board and already know this too - sorry but after my (somewhat tricky) mum found my old account after a bit of unsettling sleuthing, I've learned not to trust anonymity.

Kacie, can I PM it to you? Or any other volunteers?