I don't know if I've turned into a money grabber - MN help me!

[carryingcargo]

It's long, sorry.

My DP and I earn much the same around £50K; I earn slightly more. We live in his house which he owns outright from his dad who left it to him years ago. We have 2 DCs and have both worked FT since they were born. Never married as neither of us like the 'institution' itself. Never were madly in love - I got pregnant and moved in to his house as having twins. We're friends and a good parenting team, in the main but it's been a sexless relationship for 10 years, his preference, used to upset me terribly but now I've just atrophied. He says he loves me but the whole relationship is flat, dull.

In the past, we've never really argued about money, his money is his business, mine likewise. I would say broadly that I spend mine on the DCs, the house, and holidays; his goes on the maintenance of the house and all bills. Neither of us has much left over if anything at the end of each month.

Because of no mortgage etc we've had a better quality of life than our incomes would normally deliver. I have to be honest and say that this has partly influenced me in staying in a relationship I have never found fulfilling. But also, I've suffered (and am treated for) depression for years and I was terrified of being a single mother of twins, and I don't really think I'm capable of loving anyone, so 'better the devil you know' took hold and the years have gone by.

Now the DCs are about to leave home next year, it's really focussed my mind and I know I want to leave. I want to buy a house because I'm scared shitless at the idea of being an old lady in rented accommodation. My life up to meeting DP was very peripatetic - a stable home feels extremely important to me.

But I have no deposit. I need to start saving big style for one, as where I live is expensive, and I want somewhere with a second bedroom for my DCs to stay in when they visit (they are likely to both live abroad).

I discovered that he is going to be very rich in the near-ish future: he stands to inherit over a million after tax, and his house is worth at least a million (our family home).

My problem is that this has really changed how I feel about our finances. I now feel he should pay for everything to do with the DCs and the/his house, so that I can save and save and save over the next 12 months to build up a deposit. I'm also finding myself thinking, I could use my DC's savings as a deposit, as he will have more than enough to replace that money with. And a big bit of me wants to ask him to give me some money towards a new home for me.

Am I just a self-serving money grabber? If he wasn't going to inherit this money I wouldn't be thinking like this. I'm not a money-minded person, if I have money I spend it, I give a lot to charity as I know I'm well-off, I don't spend on myself (ebay is my spiritual home), everything I have earned has gone on our DCs or holidays.

I am really anxious that I will end up staying in this relationship because I'm too cowardly to leave without having a sense of my own house to move into. Please help me get some perspective.

I think people are being really awful to the op. She has come here and has admitted that she thinks her thinking might be wrong but wants advice. All she has is bitching at her about how she has spent her money.

There is no use flaming her for how she has lived, she needs advice to go forward. She might have made mistakes financially speaking in the past but there is no point sticking the knife in!

OP how much do you think you need to buy somewhere? Do you know how your DP will react to suggesting you break up? Is it likely to be acrimonious?

Again going against the grain..

I thought in the eyes of the law if you have lived together for over 3 years you count as a partnership and therefore are entitled to 50%.. Please don't quote me on that.

Speak to a solicitor and find out where you stand.

3Sugars are you in the UK?

I thought in the eyes of the law if you have lived together for over 3 years you count as a partnership and therefore are entitled to 50%.. Please don't quote me on that.

No you aren't

I thought in the eyes of the law if you have lived together for over 3 years you count as a partnership and therefore are entitled to 50%.. Please don't quote me on that.

No. Maybe in Australia or somewhere like that?

Yes in the UK.. Okay maybe I read that wrong...

My DP Is now ecstatic about that new info

I would talk to a solicitor first and find out where you stand. Get that clear. Once they have given suggestions and answers, you will be in a better position to decide what to do.

Next I think you should have a conversation with DP. Any assumptions you are having may be wrong, and things may not be as bad as you think. You are the mother of his dcs and have brought them up together, and you have a decent rapport between you. What does he think is going to happen if you decide to not stay together? What did you think would happen?

The legal side is explained here:

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/

I'm afraid it doesn't seem as if the OP has any claim on the kind of division of assets that would happen in the end of a marriage.

OP have you considered waiting until the dcs leave? I think many couples can feel very jaded and flat after years of child rearing and their relationship can start to blossom again, albeit rather slowly, once they have some peace and some time together without dcs.

It sounds as if you like many aspects of your life with your partner and it's just that your attraction is not there just now. I wonder if it might come back with a bit of patience especially when you find out how small a house you could afford alone?

(I've just been watching the 1990s version of Pride and Prejudice and I'm reminded of Elizabeth Bennet finding that Mr Darcy was much much more attractive once she saw his big house.)

Sorry if that's sounds cynical, but I like to think that your dp may also love you.

3Sugars it's very much not true and it's a real worry that so many people think it is (like people saying "common law wife").

Unmarried couples have very very minimal rights in a break up whether you've been together one year or fifty.

Pleased that we've cheered your DP up though!

Sorry to sidetrack this a bit, but I'm concerned about you deciding that this is the time to go your separate ways. I think it could have a huge impact on your children to discover that you only stayed together because of them.

And does your partner know how you feel? Will this be a shock to him? Is it worth talking about the future - not as in 'I've done my time' but - 'how do you see our future when the twins leave?'.

if there was a civil partnership for heterosexuals we'd have done that, but hey ho.

There is. It is called getting married in a registry office. I say this for anyone reading in the same situation as the OP but earlier on in the relationship. The benefits of marriage are purely legal/contractual and should be assessed in this light.

OP can I ask why you saved your money in your DCs' names when you had no property or savings of your own? That was a strange decision imo and to be honest, if the money was all saved by you and is legally accessible by you, I would think nothing of you taking it. It is after all money you saved. Presumably any property you buy with it will go to your children anyway.

I have plenty of money left over every month and plenty of savings but none of it is in my childrens' names. I will help them through college etc but see no reason why my savings should be legally theirs.

I also think you should get legal advice and also just sit and talk to your partner. you have spent 18 years in a joint enterprise of living together and rearing children. Even if not legally, that should mean something morally. I don't think you are entitled to half his inheritance or half his house but I do think you should have the wherewithal after 18 years to buy a modest property of your own by putting down a deposit. Surely he would not want the mother of his children to be living in a rented one bedroom while he has the family home and plenty of money? How would that look to his children? I do appreciate many men do just that but maybe OP's partner is better than that.

Canyouforgiveher yes I like to think that the dp would like to help OP out and would see the moral side. It's possible that he also feels trapped in the relationship. It would be nice to ask diplomatically though just in case he was not thinking of ending the relationship.

If you live in UK & are not married you do not have many legal rights

If you were married you would be fully protected legally

I would start saving TODAY for yourself for deposit or rent, emergency savings, pension, ISA

The childrens money belongs to them, they would have enjoyed higher savings & tax rates

Suggest adding this post into money section too

Suggest make appointment with citizens advice & financial adviser

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/relationships/living-together-marriage-and-civil-partnership/living-together-and-marriage-legal-differences/#h-money-and-possessions

Read this

"Co-habitation - living together
Co-habitants are now given legal protection in several areas. However, they and their families have significantly fewer rights and responsibilities than their counterparts who are married or who have formed a civil partnership.

Most people think that after they've been living with their partner for a couple of years, they become 'common law husband and wife' with the same rights as married couples. This is not the case. In fact, couples who live together have hardly any of the same rights as married couples or civil partners.

There is no such thing as 'common law marriage'.

If you are living together as a couple, there are steps you can take to protect yourself and your partner.

There are also ways to minimise the legal and financial problems which may arise if, as can happen, you decide to separate, or if one of you dies."

Since you've stuck out a sexless, loveless relationship for so long, in common sense terms, if rather brutally honest, its probably your best bet to aim for marriage if you can. Relationships can go stale if marriage is never on the cards sometimes.

If not, for my ftb, on my own, I got a bank loan for the deposit, said it was for a car, and got 3 x my salary.

You can always rent somewhere bigger and buy a small place for security for when you get older.

Alternatively, you could try and end the current relationship on good terms and ask your partner if he will contribute towards a property for you.

I get the impression that you don't really want to leave this relationship - am I right? But you feel guilty because you think you will be staying for the money. But equally, you might stay for security if he had no money, if the situation were different, don't you think?

You might want to be stricter with your saving/spending habits anyway. 50k pa is a good salary. I've heard of plenty of women who don't work at all in similar situations, not married, so I don't think your position is necessarily all that bad.

Does he know you don't have savings. I'd be honest and say you need to start saving for yourself, he may chose to help you.

I think your partner has been very clever . He has put all his money into things that are solely his AND appreciate in value - savings, pension, house .

You have put all your money into things that are your joint responsibility or do not last - paying for the children, cars ( I assume ) , food, holidays and savings in the children's name .

Very clever indeed . How convenient for him that he doesn't believe in legal contracts that carry financial obligations marriage .

How is the children's money saved OP? I assume for you to be thinking of using it for a deposit, it's in accounts you have ultimate control over and access to rather than them? If it's not, this may all be a rhetorical question anyway.

If DP has been feathering his own nest at the expense of you and the children, yes I think it would be ok for you to take half of the savings to use for a deposit and expect him to top the rest up. The responsibility to save for them ought to have been equal, in your circumstances. If he's been covering all the bills while you pay the same amount into their savings though, the ethical case is weaker.

And tbh I think scremersford has a point about marriage too...

Hi OP,

I think most people have been very hard on you FWIW, and banging on about what you have or have not done in the past is unhelpful.

I agree with Leeza2 that it is very convenient (if not suspicious) that all his money has gone on nice appreciable assets and yours on current expenditure. But that is by the by...

I agree with other posters that .... Before you speak to him or have any 'conversation', go and see a family solicitor. Know the ground on which you stand.

It doesn't look great, not being married, in this situation, but there are possibilities I think, towards getting a chunk of the value of the house. After all, you have paid for all the other stuff, to enable him to pay for stuff that increases the value of the house. This could be seen as your contribution to the value of the property.

It all depends on what his reaction will be to you wanting to split up. You need to get a lawyer to explain the different contingencies i.e. whether it was amicable or whether he was likely to be aggrieved and acrimonious. You need to know these things.

It seems to me that he could have known exactly what he was doing from the get-go in not marrying you. If that is his mindset, then you need to know what you are up against.

I think it would be deeply unfair if you were to come out of this with no right to a chunk of the property, having contributed so much to the partnership which has children. I have no idea whether fairness would have much to do with the outcome, but the key is to get some really good professional advice.

And for all those naysayers £175k would not get you a one bedroom flat round here, a not very swanky bit of London.

You said you are friends in your first post. So why not just talk to him

I think this is the only way to go about it. I don't think you have any legal entitlements, but you could check that out, so you could discuss it all with him as suggested, and see what he offers.

I agree with Leeza, and as I said before it sounds like he's been subtly shafting you.

The OP says they both didn't want to get married. It isn't all the OPs DP fault no matter what some may want to believe it is.

It seems to me that he could have known exactly what he was doing from the get-go in not marrying you. If that is his mindset, then you need to know what you are up against.

The OP says she didn't want to get married either!

I don't think that the OP's partner is shafting her at all, they both didn't want to get married. If the partner is paying all the bills and there's no mortgage then it's not his fault that she's spunked most of her money away on the kids (although I find that hard to believe really).

I know this isn't much use to you now OP. But I do think it's worth noting, for anyone else reading who might be in the same situation, that it's perfectly possible to go to a lawyer and draw up contacts that confer SOME of the benefits of marriage . Of course it costs much more than £54 ( or however much a marriage license is these days )

For those with, ....ahem ...."principles " . How interesting to see who benefits from these " principles " and who suffers .

I have to say that it's astounding that you would live in this house for 18 years knowing that he could throw you and your kids out anytime . And that if he died, his family could throw you out .

And that you allowed him to build up pensions and savings while you had none of your own .

That you never wondered why he paid the house insurance ( hundreds ) while you paid the food bills and holidays ( thousands).

I'm sorry, I know that you know you've been very foolish . But if one women reads this and thinks " oh shit, that could me in 15 years " and does something about it , then it's useful

It's not like he was paying the bills and doing the maintenance on the house in secret. It's the op's responsibility to protect herself and she had the means to do this.