How could he - no forgiveness

[CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger]

I had a terrible childhood, being on tenterhooks as to what mood my father was in and whether he would get angry with me and hit me black and blue, not to mention all the psychological and emotional abuse, and my mother constantly explaining it away and not protecting me in any way. Thing is he was/is a highly respected academic and I come from a very middle class family so nobody ever suspected, and EVERY SINGLE incident has always been explained away or trivialised, so I found myself blaming myself for making a mountain out of a molehill. My life has been dictated by my childhood experiences and I've been through a hell of a lot of counselling and antidepressants to get to where I am.

Anyway, I though my dad had mellowed in his old age and that my coping strategies had gotten me to a stage where we could spend reasonable amounts of time together without major issue. It did t even occur to me that he would turn on anyone other than me. Until tonight.

We (7 yo DD, DH and I) came up for a few days for 1/2 term, this evening DD was watching something on the iPad upstairs on my bed, I'd just left her to come down to see DH when dad went upstairs, saw DD on the iPad and told her to go downstairs for dinner. DD, I believe, did her usual "just 30 seconds to see this bit" (she's a pickle and often difficult to manage, there's no denying it - but no behaviour is excuse for his actions) and dad lost it ... I heard the shouting from downstairs and recognised the manevolant, out of control, tone coming from him. By the time I'd got out of my chair he'd pushed her 1/2 way down the stairs and had his hands around her throat (yes his HANDS around her THROAT). She was hysterical, I grabbed her and screamed at him to get his hands off my daughter, he eventually did when I dragged her off him and I took her away clinging to me, dad immediately went in to "dinners ready are you just going to let it go cold" mode whilst DH was trying to persuade him to just leave us be whilst I consoled DD and stopped myself from launching myself at him. When he realised I wasn't just going to submit and let him get away with it he stormed out of the house. Next thing we had the vicar from the local abbey knocking at the door as dad had walked in and said he was going to sleep on a bench all night (if so why did he feel the need to go in to the abbey and tell her that? Classic emotional blackmail ... I should be used to it), my mum said it's his house he can come home so I said we'd leave - which we did.

So here I am, lying in a hotel bed next to my (wonderful, supportive) DH with DD in the bed next to us (she's OK, although understandably thinks her grandfather "is a mean man").

I have considered going NC in the past but I've been so programmed to believe the party line of "ah it's just him, but what can you do, if it wasn't for you doing X he'd have never reacted like that" that I've always felt too guilty. But you lay a fucking finger on my child and that is it - he no longer exists as far as I'm concerned. He's lucky I didn't call the police.

There's no real reason for me posting here other than DD and DH are sound asleep and I am lying awake with everything going round and round my head. Just needed to vent really.

CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger You are a fantastic parent.

this man no longer exists in our lives

Once again you show your utter wisdom

May I suggest, though, that you prepare yourself for the possibility of your mother going ballistic when police make contact. While you mustn't ever doubt what you've done, as I said upthread it seems there's a lot of attention given to "appearances." If that's the case, I really can't see her taking this well ...

Thankyou for your kind words.

I suspect this is the lull before the storm Puzzledandpissedoff and am bracing myself. Not looking forward to it one little bit, but her response to all of this is out of my control and all I can do is protect DD, myself and my family from any further damage either of them may want to cause.

but her response to all of this is out of my control and all I can do is protect DD, myself and my family from any further damage either of them may want to cause.

Absolutely!! I'm pretty sure there will be a shit storm but I think you're prepared for it. Just be ready to go NC if/when it happens. Just remember if they decide to 'go public' with your 'terrible accusations' that you are under NO obligation to keep silent.

Absolutely correct, Cuppa In the absence of being able to do anything about their reaction, preparedness is always the best course

Cuppa, I have no doubt that every call from your mother is like reopening the scab. You have lots of people here holding your hand and supporting you.

Cuppa, just wanted to offer some support. You and your DH have reacted so well in immediately protecting your DD and removing her from the situation. You are a courageous mum and stood up for your little girl.

I had a very similar childhood to yours and my father did something similar to my eldest while my mother said she deserved being hit for being naughty (she fought with her younger sister over some toys.

I have subsequently moved away and all but cut comms, he is never allowed to be alone with her. We moved countries so no chance of putting ourselves in a situation where he can hurt her again.

Being a mum has been a real journey for me, learning to give all the things I never had as a child, real affection and interest in their individual personalities, suppressing my anger and finding a coping mechanism how to parent in a loving way with no guidance ever.

I have learnt to do this by taking advice from my DH and his family, other mummy friends and general common sense.

I am also out of my parents clutches and the break has helped not to reinforce learned bad habits. My dc are happy and comfortable in their long distance relationship with their grandparents from my side and I keep that wall up.

NC is probably best for you, to help your DD to minimizer what has happened and allow you to cope with your own hurt.

My guess is that once the police have contacted your father, he will work very hard to portray himself as the victim . Just like he did with the vicar - look , my evil ungrateful daughter had thrown me out my own house .

This won't work with the police, because they are not stupid and have seen his type before. But it may work with other family members and friends , so be prepared for them to contact you and try to remonstrate with you .

I predict there will be threats regarding his health eg your father is suicidal , your mother is having angina attacks with the stress . One or both of them may even get themselves admitted into hospital for tests for mysterious illnesses .

If that doesn't work, you may then get threats , to cut you off from everyone in your family or disinherit you .

They may try to manipulate you by contacting other people not directly involved , like your ex s family or your husbands . " just to try and get you to see sense " . Or they may claim to be worried about your mental health because you are making " wild accusations " against them .

These are all typical action of narcissistic people when their control is threatened . They get very very angry .

I'm saying all this in the hope that it prepares you a little . What I DONT think you will get is a proper apology , in which your parents take responsibility for their own actions and the distress it has caused you all . One that accepts that you were right to take the action you have and that any consequences are your fathers own responsibility .

All that^^, and YYY to being prepared for 'no closure' here. That aspect of it is something only time can heal.

Just rtft. My heart goes out to you cuppa. You're doing amazing. But don't lose sight of your own needs in all this. As previous posters have said, it will bring up a lot of bad memories and emotions, and you shouldn't have to deal with these alone. Hugs and

Brilliantly put, Leeza2

Cuppa if, when the time comes, you feel you need an answer for anyone who tries to interfere, maybe simply say "the police have advised no further contact." I've used it myself under slightly different circumstances, and if nothing else it makes them question the wisdom of getting involved

Only just found this thread, and DP and I are in awe of you.

Just wanted to say well done for acting so promptly (despite it being very difficult) in order to keep your child safe. I've seen many children who are victims of such bullies that sadly aren't kept safe. Take care of each other xx

Bloody hell. Just read through all of this, I'm so sorry for you OP.

I went NC with my parents due to abuse. Never reported it to the police. If I'm honest, I never thought it was an option - the psychological fucking with the mind made me think it was completely normal behaviour.

I did get back in touch after a bereavement and they have a great relationship with my DD now, and I have no worries about her (although she'd never see them unsupervised). She probably sees them twice a year now.

If I ever got so much of a whiff of their old behaviour though I'd be NC in a heartbeat.

You did the right thing. If it was my DD I'd have done the same. FX the scum bag gets exactly what he deserves.

Cuppa, you are fantastic, you have a wonderful family (proper, that really count family) and you are bringing up a lovely strong young woman. Your unity and strength will piss this vile bully and his enabler off no end.

Yes I've just read all though this too;!.

Cuppa How the hell did you manage to control yourself when he was strangling your child?. If that had been me after I'd wrested DD from him I'd have told him to now try it with me. He wouldn't have done as he'd have realised what fate would befall him!.

I think you have done right in reporting it to the police and keep the pressure on them in case the swine tries to wiggle out of it be they ever so bloody "respectable".

Your poor mother has it seems to me has suffered too as your brother.

Be strong and brave please for your sake as well as DD and brother and perhaps your mum. I suspect shes been so mentally battered over the years she doesn't know right from wrong anymore.

This bloody "respectable" concept though. My first wife's mother was raped by her bastard father for the duration of her teenage years and her sister too and the mother did nothing but keet quiet, even knowing it was going on she too was just stunned into acceptance of it all or perhaps was just anaesthetised to it as she couldn't cope.

Be brave and see the whole thing through now. I suspect that it will do you good in the long term and hopefully wreak punishment on him and it might well do some good to your poor mother who i do feel sorry for as well. Perhaps they might split up and your mother will hopefully come to see what a swine he was too.

As to their money?, I'd have taken it and then let them know that its all been given to a child protection charity!.

And if you do have an IVF fund then I'll make a contribution.

I sometimes wonder how people like him get like that?.

Anyone on here any ideas at all?.

I think there are many reasons, justa.

people can become that vicious for several reasons:

1. they are truly entitled and ignorant enough to think that any female in their vicinity is theirs. Really. Different mindset in a much more informed, self-reflective society nowadays. It wasn't the same 60 or 100 years ago.

2. a deep, very deep fury and hate that transforms into exercising power over other people because the person essentially feels, at a profound level, powerless. It can transform into bullying and exercise of cruelty and abuse ... cascade effect downhill. (It absolutely does not justify it in any way at all)

3. as someone said to me once, in isolated communities / farmsteads some men end up with the view that if they can't get it from their wife, it's normal to get it from their children.

Also apparently -some- people say it's rife in the aristocracy ... okay it's a DM link but if you wiki it several similar things come up son of Earl of Sandwich raped as child

4. not so much in the UK but I'm afraid that in many war torn countries rape is seen as an assertion of power

5. some men think that if they have an itch, it ought to be scratched. Women have to help them. What they, the women think, is irrelevant. It's horrible to encounter that mindset, but it's there, I really think :(

It can be a cold, hard world.

Just to say that I've read and reread your posts a lot over the days and weeks since it happened and they continue to give me strength.

The police have taken statements from DH and I and we're waiting to find out if they also need one from DD.

My mother has been trying to contact me and I eventually relented and spoke to her on the phone a couple of days ago. Unfortunately she has reinforced what I already knew about her (but still had some hope that she wouldn't) as she tried to defend my father - even going as far as blaming my DD and denying that it even happened (she didn't know how to get out of it when I say there was a total of 3 people (inc DD) who were party to what he did!), and then (when I said that I wasn't going to let DD be exposed to the same treatment I was at the receiving end of in my childhood) she said she didn't think my childhood was that bad and could only remember a couple of times when my dad had treated me badly - I almost fell off my chair - I could reel off countless occasions, and that's only the really bad ones that I remember details of (it was my normal life, and you don't have a habit of remembering everyday things just in case you need to recall them in the future). At one stage she said my father had never done anything similar - so I had to remind her of the time he had me pinned to the stairs with both hands around my throat when I was 13 (which she was there to witness), again, she did her "ah well...ummm...there you go" response that she usually does when she doesn't know what to say.

Anyway, I said I wasn't going to continue the conversation and hung up. Fortunately I'd asked DH to stay with me while I was on the phone to her so he was there to support me when I broke down afterwards.

I understand that her behaviour is at least partially her way of coping/surviving my father, and I have an element of sympathy for her, but I cannot and do not want that in mine or my families life. It's made my decision to go NC with both of them (not just my father) very easy.

So glad things are moving ahead properly with the police, Cuppa

While speaking with your mother may not have been ideal, at least you have absolute confirmation that, even when the heat of the actual moment has passed, still she sings the same tune (even though you knew this really). To anyone who hasn't suffered parental abuse the "well ... umm ... there you go" sounds inexplicable, but I've had to hear it too and I know how much it hurts when someone you'd expect to protect you won't even accept the issue, never mind act

Of course you did absolutely the right thing in ending the conversation when you did, and while you show deep understanding in realising this is her way of coping, I know you also understand that your NC decision is the right (indeed only) possible one

As ever, brilliantly well done ... just keep on keeping on

yes Puzzledandpissedoff you're right - and another silver lining is that it has eased, if not eliminated, my guilt towards my mother (and father to extent - can you believe it!).

Buttercup443 - if you're still reading this thread, thank you for sharing your own experience, I'm sorry you had to go through similar.

I can believe it very easily, Cuppa Thing is, when you're raised in a family like this it's only too easy to become part of the pretence, even coming to believe that you really should brush such events under the carpet because that's how it's always been done

To move away from that and develop the great mindset you have takes a hell of a lot of strength; just be glad you've got it

Cuppa, the trauma of that phone call must have been horrible. I am glad you had your DH there and that he knew what was being said. I also believe that that experience will serve a positive function in the long run for you. Sometimes you need to see very starkly what is going on and what has always gone on, and that conversation certainly laid it out good and bare

As far as your mother goes, denial IS just a river in Egypt!

Good idea to cut contact. You won't ever get an apology and you don't need to hear rationalizations or denial.

I'd suggest you start the NC now, take the initiative, go NC to your schedule, not hers. Make every non-written form of contact impossible (block her number, for instance). Maybe drop her an email explaining that as long as she intends to be in denial about your and your DS's abuse and assaults, you have nothing to say and nothing to hear. Give her nothing but an email option, and get DH to momitor that. When she (or he) tries to get in touch again, hopefully somebody will slip up and give you written evidence. But even if not, you have controlled access. Perhaps if she has to think about what she's about to write into an email she'll start to understand that if she can't write it down, maybe it was bad.

But that's probably too much to hope. So be prepared for the flying monkeys and heart troubles/cancer scares stage of the proceedings.

cuppatea, you're an amazing mum and a real inspiration.