How could he - no forgiveness

[CuppaTeaAndAJammieDodger]

I had a terrible childhood, being on tenterhooks as to what mood my father was in and whether he would get angry with me and hit me black and blue, not to mention all the psychological and emotional abuse, and my mother constantly explaining it away and not protecting me in any way. Thing is he was/is a highly respected academic and I come from a very middle class family so nobody ever suspected, and EVERY SINGLE incident has always been explained away or trivialised, so I found myself blaming myself for making a mountain out of a molehill. My life has been dictated by my childhood experiences and I've been through a hell of a lot of counselling and antidepressants to get to where I am.

Anyway, I though my dad had mellowed in his old age and that my coping strategies had gotten me to a stage where we could spend reasonable amounts of time together without major issue. It did t even occur to me that he would turn on anyone other than me. Until tonight.

We (7 yo DD, DH and I) came up for a few days for 1/2 term, this evening DD was watching something on the iPad upstairs on my bed, I'd just left her to come down to see DH when dad went upstairs, saw DD on the iPad and told her to go downstairs for dinner. DD, I believe, did her usual "just 30 seconds to see this bit" (she's a pickle and often difficult to manage, there's no denying it - but no behaviour is excuse for his actions) and dad lost it ... I heard the shouting from downstairs and recognised the manevolant, out of control, tone coming from him. By the time I'd got out of my chair he'd pushed her 1/2 way down the stairs and had his hands around her throat (yes his HANDS around her THROAT). She was hysterical, I grabbed her and screamed at him to get his hands off my daughter, he eventually did when I dragged her off him and I took her away clinging to me, dad immediately went in to "dinners ready are you just going to let it go cold" mode whilst DH was trying to persuade him to just leave us be whilst I consoled DD and stopped myself from launching myself at him. When he realised I wasn't just going to submit and let him get away with it he stormed out of the house. Next thing we had the vicar from the local abbey knocking at the door as dad had walked in and said he was going to sleep on a bench all night (if so why did he feel the need to go in to the abbey and tell her that? Classic emotional blackmail ... I should be used to it), my mum said it's his house he can come home so I said we'd leave - which we did.

So here I am, lying in a hotel bed next to my (wonderful, supportive) DH with DD in the bed next to us (she's OK, although understandably thinks her grandfather "is a mean man").

I have considered going NC in the past but I've been so programmed to believe the party line of "ah it's just him, but what can you do, if it wasn't for you doing X he'd have never reacted like that" that I've always felt too guilty. But you lay a fucking finger on my child and that is it - he no longer exists as far as I'm concerned. He's lucky I didn't call the police.

There's no real reason for me posting here other than DD and DH are sound asleep and I am lying awake with everything going round and round my head. Just needed to vent really.

Please report this to the police. This isn't about you and your dad anymore.

Couldn't agree more. File. A. Police. Report. AND get her checked out even if he hasn't left a mark, make sure to log it with hospital staff as a result of an assault by your father as well.

Thing is he was/is a highly respected academic

Plenty of 'respected' people have been uncovered as abusive little shits, I'm so sorry your family demoralised you to the point of blaming yourself, but no matter how high he thinks he is, he can be taken down.

I'm not sure that I could involve the police but it would be completely understandable if you did but I'd sure as hell go completely NC. With both of them.
Your mother is little better than him if she allows not only her daughter but her granddaughter to be subjected to this sort of behaviour.
Do you think/know that your father has been violent to her too? Maybe she's scared of him? Still no excuse to just try to brush it all under the carpet though.

Cuppa you're brilliant - your dd is so lucky to have you X

I'm so sorry you're all going through this. Fwiw, personally I'd be going to the police and would never ever have contact with either of them again.

You did the right thing

I may be a tad OTT here but if I were DH in this scenario and someone, anyone, had their hands round my daughters throat, pushing her down stairs I would have thrown him down the stairs and kicked his arse out the house hard enough that he wouldn't be sitting for a month.

I agree with other posters, call police its assault and its horrific. If there had been an argument its one thing, but to go that far without provocation is too much.

I would also totally NC, I don't think he deserves you innhis life after mistreating you as a child. I'd also NC Mum too for enabling such vile behaviour. But that's me.

I'd be calling the police!!! Slapping your grandchild is enough for NC, but what he did goes way beyond the smacking debate (no I don't agree with smacking), he physically abused your child to a very violent degree. Pushing down the stairs and throttling could have killed her!

I was brought up where smacking was acceptable and I had the odd 'good harding'. It was quite the done thing back then but it was never done to the extent your poor daughter received. My parents would never have laid a finger on my children and had they of I'd have rang the police and cut them out my life completely. You need to do something as he's clearly a dangerous, manipulative man.

as soon as the vicar made an appearance it was reverting back to type and very much, "well it's your decision to leave and it's his house"

In addition to the sheer horror of what happened, I find this bit especially chilling - it seems there's a lot of covering up for appearances' sake going on, and if your mother considers this an appropriate way to behave I'd suggest she's no better than him

At all costs keep your little girl away from this monster

Hope you're all home now and taking some breathing space. As far as contacting the police, I do think it's a good idea but the ultimate decision is yours. Do remember, however, that if DD's father is at all in the picture that decision may well be taken out of your hands. And in that case, I'd rather be the one to make that call myself.

I have to agree that ringing the police does a number of things. It shows your dd that you will protect her and that bad guys have to deal with the police, even if it's someone you know. It sends a message to your father that this is unacceptable - domestics are not treated the same way now that they were 20 years ago. It may even provide you with a bit of comfort knowing that you can stand up to him now and help your dd with this. There's also the fact that then nothing will come back on you from your dd's father (if he is in her life at present) so you don't need to worry about being accused of covering up an assault on her. Definitely have any marks documented by a medical professional and tell them exactly how it happened.

If your mother is backing him, then you will probably need to go NC with both of them, as she will make excuses for him every time.

OP, thank you for posting this. I had a similar childhood.
My parents have been putting pressure on me to send my kid to theirs for the holidays. I was just thinking: now that she's older, maybe he won't...and then I go and read your post! That seals it.
Sorry this has happened to you and your DD. Go NC

OP go to the police. Who cares if it puts a rocket up his arse and upsets your mother! He needs it. She needs it. Your DD needs to see you take proper action. Leaving is not enough. If a random person did this to her, you would call the police surely

OP, I'm so sorry to hear about this. I was in a similar situation growing up - foul mouthed, foul tempered abusive father, but we were so middle class and had such a nice house in such a nice area, I didn't think anyone would take me seriously. On more than one occasion I would run out of the house after being slapped/kicked/punched and walk three miles to the police station, try to gather up my courage and then decide they'd never take me seriously, with my good education and my nice accent and my respectable looking family. And because it was always being trivialised at home, and Dad was blaming me, I doubted it could be all that serious anyway. Even the time Dad lunged at me with his hands out, clearly going for my throat, and Mum had to leap between us. That was both not a big deal, and yet still my fault.

He's dead now but I often told myself that if I ever had kids, he would never, ever be allowed in a room alone with them. Ironically he loved kids, he loved being stupid and playing around, but his temper was too disgusting and much as he liked children, he also got off on smacking them; it made him feel powerful and like the almighty arbiter of Good and Evil, administering his just punishments. He really was an odious shitbag of a man.

Kids cannot advocate for themselves the way we can. We have to try to think of these things in terms of how we'd react if a boyfriend did it to someone. I think you should call the police; nothing may come of it but just getting his collar felt could help. He's a bully and at the end of the day, bullies are cowards. Just knowing that someone outside of the tiny family bubble he controls and dictates knows and disapproves - and a person in authority - could scare him into backing off.

But whether or not you do, NC is without doubt the best course of action. Your kids come first. Nobody protected you, but you can protect them.

Sorry all not ignoring, we were travelling back, then I've been having a duvet day with DD (although I fell asleep!).

I haven't yet called the police, but I do take all your points and am going to speak with them, DH is at work (he was always coming home a couple of days earlier as had we own our own business and he needed to be there) and I am completely without a voice other than a whisper (larangitis) but once either he's back or my voice is regained (so I'd imagine tomorrow morning) I'll be in touch.

DD is fine, when asked if she was glad to be home she replied "yes, glad to be away from Grandpa". She is off to her Dad's on Wednesday so I'll of course have to tell him what's happened.

First of all well done

Supporting your daughter and removing her from their home was absolutely the right step.

Moving forwards I see no other option but to go non contact. The fact your father felt able to do this when you were in the house shows he fundamentally sees this abuse as acceptable behaviour.

I'm not qualified to state this but his behaviour does seem to have psychopathic traits (superficially charming and respectable but utterly lacking in empathy combined with an arrogance and callousness delivered with manipulative ruthlessness). In short a very dangerous combination.

As to the question of the police, one consideration is do you have any siblings who have children ie are any other grandchildren in potential danger? If the answer is yes, I think you need to inform them of what happened and also contact the police to have this on record.

If not, given you will protect your daughter, then I think you need to decide if police intervention is going to be of any significant benefit over and above any stress it may cause.

You've done a good thing and already broken the cycle of abuse by protecting your daughter. You can't control your parents or change them - but you don't have to put up with their crap either.

Better to be a "bad" daughter (in their eyes) than an apathetic and unloving parent (like your mother) and an abusive asshole like your father.

Good to know she knows her own mind. Inevitably the shitbag will try to blame her, because grown men can't possibly be responsible for their actions against children. Don't put the idea into her head if nobody brings it up, but if anyone does make any kind of 'well you did...' or 'you know what he's like so why did you....' and so on, just make it absolutely 100% clear to her that nobody is responsible for his actions except him, and it is absolutely 100% NOT HER FAULT.

I'm so sorry others of you have suffered similar. I will definitely pop over to the Stately Homes thread - I did actually post once and then felt immediately guilty and didn't follow up, I will be doing now though.

Thank goodness you are going to phone the police! You were abused as a child, don't let him get away with abusing your daughter as well. It's time he paid for his behaviour, no more excuses.

Do it for your poor daughter!

I agree with all of GingerIvy's comments about calling the Police.

You need to take DD to A&E regardless of whether you can see a mark on her neck or not.

Please don't talk yourself out of doing this.

If I were you I would see your father's remark that this will all blow over as a challenge. I actually think he was taunting you, reminding you that you dare not upset his apple cart, and that he is the almighty well-respected academic whose friend is the vicar.

I think you need to take this opportunity to remind him that there is a higher authority that he answers to, namely the police and what they represent.

My exH comes from a family where incidents of extreme abuse were treated as family jokes in one incident his father spanked one of the girls so hard (for misbehaving in church, ironically) that he broke her leg. It was all covered up exFIL was a doctor, community leader, blahblah, and one of his friends treated the broken leg. The family are all very sad people, and really hard work to live with (impossible in my case). People who try to demonstrate to children that they are above the law deserve to be bitten hard in the butt by karma in a uniform.

I have to admit that I am worried about the stress DD will be placed under if I report to the police, there are no other grandchildren - dad is desperate for another grandchild to the point that he'd been putting pressure on me for some time and had offered to cover some of our IVF costs (needed as DH had a vasectomy and we'd been advised to go for the IVF route) and we'd started the process, unfortunately that will now have to stop, which is very upsetting, but the child that's already here (aka DD) is the priority.

Please try to separate what happened to you years ago from what happened to your DD last night.

I realise it is a good thing and maybe cathartic for you that your inner child found a measure of release when you intervened and saved your daughter, but this incident stands alone as an assault on your DD by her grandfather and needs to be reported and recorded as such.

You can attend to your own therapy separately. But please try to separate your daughter from yourself in your mind here. You and she are not the same person. What happened last night was about her and please stay focused on justice for her, followed by any trauma counselling she may need.

Your own needs are separate.

If you want another child, that's got nothing to do with your father. Even if you have another child, you can remain NC. I'd keep that decision entirely separate (and maybe look back at it when this situation isn't so raw).

Yes, she may feel some pressure, but as long as you are there to support her, she should be okay. You stopped him immediately and you know you won't allow it to happen again. This will allow her the chance to make her voice heard, which IMO is important. If you do not report it to the police, she may feel you are sweeping it under the carpet and feel that she cannot talk about it.

Unfortunately it is GingerIvy due to the financial assistance they were going to give - but please don't misunderstand me anyone, this is just another sad result of the situation and in no way a deciding factor of my actions.

I don't agree that not going to the police would make the OP's daughter feel unsupported.

As long as she is able to talk about and assured it wasn't her fault combined with the sanction of non contact for the grandfather it's very clear how seriously the situation has been taken.

Only the OP knows enough about her daughter to judge if contacting the police is the right thing to do.

The police are well able (and sadly well used) to handle cases of assault involving children. They do specific training for incidents involving children and will handle any questions very sensitively. The station may even have a specially dedicated officer.

Please bring DD to A&E, and tell the doctor(s) there what happened.

I hate to make this about you covering your butt, but to echo and elaborate on what GingerIvy said, if DD mentions this in school her teacher will have more than just raised eyebrows. It may even constitute a safeguarding issue that requires reporting. A person to whom the incident is reported may want to know what steps you took to report the incident already. They will not be interested in matters such as your forgiveness or where you are right now wrt the relationship with your father except insofar as it relates to your DD's safety and your capacity to exercise sound judgement when it comes to contact between him and your DD. Are you going to require your DD to keep this incident secret?

I suspect that you and your parents are very much enmeshed (hence him campaigning for a second grandchild and paying for IVF, as if your body is a piece of breeding equipment and your acquiescence in this, as well as the fact that you seem to have been fostering a relationship between your father and your DD by visiting). Enmeshment means your personal boundaries are permeable and unclear, and dynamics within the family involve unclear boundaries and a warped sense of loyalty to family or individuals within them that comes into conflict with the best interests of the self. In enmeshed relationships people are defined by the relationship and their choices where family members are concerned do not indicate a healthy sense of self.

Wrt enmeshment -- You should ask yourself what you were hoping to gain by letting your father become so involved in the decision to have another child and to pay for the IVF, and also what you were trying to gain by visiting and keeping up a relationship. Especially, you need to ask yourself what you were trying to gain from exposing (for want of a better word) your DD to him and your mother.

You are not responsible for any fallout your father and mother will face when you make the call to the police. Your job here on this earth is not to meet your parents' needs, either for a grandchild or for a life free of consequences for violently assaulting small children. If you are looking for approval from your parents, please try to set that desire aside. You do not need their approval in your life. You do not need permission from anyone to go ahead and report to the right authorities what your father did.

You are an adult with a loving DH, and together you can face any disapproval or loss of potential in the relationship with your parents that reporting will entail. Many children of abusive parents live their whole lives trying their utmost to forge a better relationship with their abusers, seeking approval or love or some sort of feeling that they have triumphed and things are ok. 99.9% of the time this ideal does not materialise, because abusers do not care about the relationship, but only about power. Effectively they hand themselves to their abusers on a plate, continuously.

You are able to see when very obvious manipulation tactics are being used against you (sleeping on the park bench, etc) but I am not sure if you can see your reluctance to report this as an enmeshment trait on your part, and I am not sure how you see the IVF payment and the pressure to have a second child/second grandchild. It takes two to be enmeshed, but it is possible by taking action (trusting outsiders such as police and doctors) and engaging in counselling to break free.

Such an insightful post , math anxiety