Is this a red flag? "I've never been in a relationship with someone who's my equal before."

[JasmineBuckles]

It's a very new relationship. He's been nothing but respectful, lovely and kind so far.

He's said a couple of times that this is a different dynamic than he's used to. He's very alpha, I can tell he would like to be the man who looks after me and 'saves' me from my (rather marvellous, but busy) life.

However, after leaving an abusive relationship three years ago and doing a LOT of work on myself I think I have pretty robust self esteem and a set of healthy boundaries. I'm also very self sufficient and independent. My life is great already, he's a really nice addition.

When I asked him to elaborate, he said that he's used to charming people, and I'm impervious. He actually has to be himself to keep me interested.
But does that mean that he's spent his entire adult life going out with women who he considers beneath him? And not his equal? And is that a red flag?

I would be wary because who gets to decide who their equal is? What kind of person has such a rigid way of evaluating people? E.g. below or equal or superior. People are complex nuanced creatures. You can't classify them just like that when you're a flawed human yourself.
It suggests he sees many people as less something than him - less smart, worthy, funny, talented? It also suggests that he sees himself as really special and that he feels he's complimenting you by stating that you measure up to him! And to be honest, if you're really into someone, don't you tend to look up to them and think they're amazing - you don't go for telling them they're "equal". Not saying it's normal to be self deprecating but usually you go in for a kind of healthy idolisation no? The same kind of thing that makes you be fond of a person's quirks and flaws.
It just seems judgy and v.v. arrogant to me.

That's an excellent point velour. It implies he "sizes" people up and attaches a worth to them rather than just generally behave in a civilised manner.

(oh, the kind of person who does this generally is an inept bullshitty social climber type who deludes himself he is the one judging others, because he isn't actually as grand as he thinks he is)

Jasmine - is this man a salesman or City trader or something like that?

I worked with plenty. I note you use the word 'alpha'. For a lot (not all obviously) of these types of men life is a competition. All about being 'top dog'. Usually have a trophy wife, big car, big house, all show.

Not in my experience who regard anyone as 'equal'.

I happen to like intelligent strong women and married one. It really isn't a competition. We are a strong team. She is good at some stuff. I am good at other stuff.

He made you feel uncomfortable and that is enough. He is probing for a weakness and you called him out a few times. You are intellectually intelligent and your sister even more and that frightens him. It shouldn't if he is genuine.

I had a boss like this. Basically a bull shitter salesman. He hated women. Married a women who was an air hostess much lower intelligence and earning power than him. He was terrified of my wife who is far more intelligent.

Read page one and five. He sounds like a
Nob. He is trying to charm you. Id walk away.

OP - did he actually say something about "equals" or did you assume it? Because I can't see it in what you've posted.

I dated a similar man who was only used to charming people - and I was impervious - and he realised I liked him much better when he was being himself but I think he felt a bit vulnerable. I then said, look, put your cards on the table, I'm a very open minded person so whatever your worries/fears are about being yourself, tell me them.

He told me. And I was fine with them. And he was surprised; I think previously he had girlfriends who wanted a more, er, conventional relationship and needed to be texted every day and so on and had developed a whole bunch of mechanisms to manage it. Once he realised I didn't need managing, and a lot of the "issues" he had in relationships seemed like damn good common sense to me, it was fine. If he's the kind of good looking charmer who has dated a lot and been called a commitment phobe, he will have developed mechanisms to deal with that annoying shit and I don't blame him (I also HATE the word commitphobe with a passion).

btw you mention your lovely life - I don't get why someone would want to "rescue" you from a lovely life? Are you assuming, because he's a bit alpha male, that he wants to do that? Because I can't see what "rescuing" someone from a lovely life would mean. If he is anxious to show off what extra loveliness he can provide, there is nothing wrong with that. Well, not in my book anyway.

I'm afraid it reminds me of a horrible date I had one time with someone my friends told me had been in love with me after meeting me once twelve years previous (I know). Went on the date and he starts telling me that I am the only intelligent woman he has ever met (my friend who recommended him is lovely and very intelligent). Grrrrr. That was enough for me, if he could not appreciate my friend he was obviously not very bright.

He's manipulative and controlling and you are vulnerable and falling for his bullshit.

I'd run now. Be prepared for him to turn nasty/try to charm you back in.

This thread is where men like the one under discussion are going.

Have returned to answer a few of the questions, and also to update.

Yes, he's a salesman. Yes, those were his exact words. We were in bed, post-sex when he said them if that's relavent.

I brought it up this weekend, and asked him exactly what he meant.

He said he was unnerved by the fact that I didn't need him for anything. He's fairly wealthy, and has had previously had girlfriends who have been much more high maintenance than I am. I am much more poor than I appear, but support myself, go halves, have a very busy and fulfilled working life and don't need constant contact. I'm too proud, and have had too shit a time to be dependant on anyone now, and that's kind of what I meant when I said he was a nice addition. He's kind, thoughtful and great fun, I like him a lot but I don't need him. I also get that this is me protecting myself.

I work with a lot of the super-rich, and he said that he didn't understand why I was with him, and not one of the private plane owning, chauffeur driven guys I work with. I explained that I hadn't picked him for his bank balance, but because we get on, we have a similar take on the world, he makes me laugh, and I really fancy him.

I think his comment was his own insecurity coming through. I also think he's had to look after previous girlfriends, either financially or emotionally. I breeze in and out between working like mad, we have a great time and then I disappear for a few days. I think the dynamic had reversed for him, so he is wrong-footed.

While I'm not going to walk just yet, I'm going further with my eyes open. I do feel like I have the upper hand so far, I'm not on the back foot at all.

I'll keep an open mind ( in every direction) and see what happens.

Your life Jasmine, your choices.
But can I point out that, on his say so, you believe that his past partners all seem to have been pathetically needy or gold diggers or both.
Again he is 'surprised' that you are not after men for their money!? I think that says something very creepy about his attitude to women?
You also talk about 'having the upper hand' and him being 'wrong footed' These are not healthy dynamics.
Please save this thread and keep posters' comments to refer to.

In my head I read this as his equal as in he's met his match a woman who isn't going to take shit like himself , someone who is outgoing,knows what they want etc but then again I don't know how it was said and I don't know him so really that's for you to ask....I wouldn't call it off over a comment like that it's very vague and until you know the real reason behind it don't judge him as you may regret it!

So he's never met a mumsnet feminist? So what? You sound proper tuned-in, OP, and I have no doubts that this man is anyghkng other than slightly bamboozled by your intelligence and feminism. So what if he thinks previous girls have been airheads? Perhaps they have; there are plenty about - including men.

Good luck, I hope you and he have happy times

Right, short answer because I'm tired. I RTFT. Am generally an excellent judge of character. Bin him off. This kind of showy man are just flat out crap partners. How often does he change his car? Bet it's frequent. Yep. Sack him.

Ugh, he is surprised you are not going out with one of your super rich clients because he thinks all women are gold diggers, basically.

He has the charm switched on good and proper at the moment, but he still sees you as an uppity little woman who needs to be put back in her place - whether this is by "rescuing" or "controlling" you, it's all the same.

I had a relationship with a man exactly as you describe. All my self esteem was gone by the end of it.

I think you're a good judge of character and he seems self aware enough to know he has flaws that you are aware of.

I hope you have a good time together

"I had a relationship with a man exactly as you describe. All my self esteem was gone by the end of it."

Same here.

I agree about the money comments! My x sabotaged my career at every point really looking back on it (leaving me with all the responsibility) but he still said "it's all about money with you" when I walked away with nothing. I@m not kidding. I fled, literally, with a bag hanging off a buggy having foolishly channelled some of my money in to his house (argh i'm over it now ) but he still thought I was after his money. He could not see that he plundered me liike I was a resource...

And my x was all charm to start with. arent they always. he even had female friends. but it was all fake. he resented them their jobs but he deserved his job

Are this guy's parents still together OP? what does he say about his mother, in terms of her career etc.

My x's parents had divorced and even though they both lived in the same village and his father's new house was bigger than his mother's, he did blame his mother for the fact that his parents were divorced at all and also he felt sorry for his father. Obviously empathised with is father for having ''worked all those years'' to end up in a 3 bed house in a new build estate. The fact that his mother was in a 2 bed and had endured years of an unhappy marriage before bailing went over his head. He hid this at first. or at least, he managed to hid it from me. Obviously Anyfucker would have spotted it. I would too now of course.

I think it depends how it was said.

If it was 'You're assertive, and I LOVE IT!' then maybe you're just the first feminist/empowered woman he's been out with, and perhaps he's finding the dynamic refreshing. You know, there are a lot of women out there who will put up with a hell of a lot, like walking doormats - and it can be refreshing for both parties to find a relationship where neither side will take any crap.

However, if it was 'You're a bit different, this is a bit weird - I need to be needed, you're too independent for me' then I'd be a lot less positive. I'm very concerned about the way he's trying to manipulate you with 'spiel' for instance - that doesn't sound too healthy and it's a bit smarmy too.

He seems at the very least to be being honest with you, op. I'd give him a chance too. You're in a position where you don't actually need him for anything material, which is a very strong place to be.

I hope you both have some fun together at the very least

Having read your context, have to say that while it was a silly thing of him to say and does show some insecurity or issue, it might not be the end of the world.

I do think you know the score and are pretty aware and have come to a good judgement here.

The one thing I'd say is that if you stay together and take it further, be very, very, very sure to always have a nest egg to fall back on so that you don't get trapped. That nest egg should be sacrosanct, and only yours.

But that's advice I'd give anyone.

This is exactly like my ex.

He's very convincing, still is, and I pity the women who go out with him now. He ingratiates people like a pro. Also a 'big hitting' sales person, which is what I think yours may be.

Underneath it all his ego is in turmoil which is why he even talks about these things. Most people wouldn't even comment on these things.

He ended up being abusive. Most people still can't believe that because he is so good at everyday life - the superficial charm of a psychopath, some might say.

I agree with comments above about making himself indispensable. It's like he's trying to make you need him whether you like it or not.

He sounds like a bit of a narcissist. I'd keep an eye out for signs of narcissistic personality disorder - which can leave a partner broken - just read some of the threads on here.

Saying "never had an equal" suggests that he has a massively inflated opinion of himself to start with.

The suggestion that now - by chance - YOU of all the women in the world have managed to fulfil that bill - smacks strongly of early pursuit and charm as he currently sees you as perfect. So he's being all super charming trying to sweep you off your feet.

My guess is that at some point he saw all the other women "as his equal" for about 5 minutes at the start of the relationship. But it ended up being "you are fat/ugly/a total mess/I can't believe I ever thought I could be with someone like you".

Keep an eye out and tread carefully. Maybe nothing but I seriously doubt it.

Is this a red flag? "I've never been in a relationship with someone who's my equal before."

Yes indeedy, it’s a red flag. All the signs are that it means exactly what you thought it meant. Plus lots of other red flags – very alpha, wants to “save” you, over-eggs the things he does for you at such an early stage.

He actually has to be himself to keep me interested.

Now that is truly twat-tastic. There is no good interpretation for that. At best he’s immature, at worst he’s manipulative.

I have caught him giving me a bit of spiel a couple of times,

Uh-oh - in ideal world you would have immediately dumped him the first time. And that's already minimising, because what you call “spiel” is what the rest of us call “lies”. So instead of him being responsible for always telling you the truth, you’re now responsible for catching him out lying. And if you’ve already caught him fibbing twice, how many times do you suppose you haven’t caught him?

Or maybe despite all these warning signs he really is a great guy and not just a plausible show-off who could turn nasty. But you also say, you’re not long out of an abusive relationship. So is it really worth the risk? Is going out with him really looking after yourself properly?

The good news is that your inner twat detector is in pretty good working order. The bad news is that it has detected a twat. Sorry! But there’s no point having a twat detector if you’re just going to carry on dating a twat.