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Relationships

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Original poster

Is this a red flag? "I've never been in a relationship with someone who's my equal before."

155 replies

JasmineBuckles · 25/09/2015 19:43

It's a very new relationship. He's been nothing but respectful, lovely and kind so far.

He's said a couple of times that this is a different dynamic than he's used to. He's very alpha, I can tell he would like to be the man who looks after me and 'saves' me from my (rather marvellous, but busy) life.

However, after leaving an abusive relationship three years ago and doing a LOT of work on myself I think I have pretty robust self esteem and a set of healthy boundaries. I'm also very self sufficient and independent. My life is great already, he's a really nice addition.

When I asked him to elaborate, he said that he's used to charming people, and I'm impervious. He actually has to be himself to keep me interested.
But does that mean that he's spent his entire adult life going out with women who he considers beneath him? And not his equal? And is that a red flag?

OP posts:

ThoseAwfulCurtains · 25/09/2015 22:08

I don't think the worst of men at all. How rude! And I'm saying what I think as an individual based on my own experiences since the OP asked for advice.

trackrBird · 25/09/2015 22:26

'thinking the worst of men'...Hardly. I don't rate line shooters of any sex.
It's up to you what you think.

AnyFucker · 25/09/2015 22:33

the thing is, you "think the worst in men" if you condone this sort of shit as if they are capable of nothing more

thinking the best of men means you expect better of them

Lweji · 25/09/2015 22:41

He might have dated women he thought were beneath him,

I'd worry about anyone who thought another human being was beneath them. Let alone people they date.

How is he with waiters/waitresses?

LittleLionHeart · 25/09/2015 22:43

I think sexism aside its a massively disrespectful thing to say. Who decide who is whose equal? Him, I suppose? How awful.

isseywithcats · 25/09/2015 22:45

i also would be wary of this man i met someone like him all charm and seemed lovely at first did nice things and charmed my grown up children too, as time went on he decided where we were eating out and embarrassed me every time we did eat out by his appalling behaviour towards the waiting on staff, then shot down everything i said, talked over me, because he realised that i was far above him and he had to be the big one in the relationship he was a classic cypriot brought up baby boy man, i soon saw past his shenanigans and got rid

HeisInfuriating · 25/09/2015 22:52

What's your waiters analogy lweji?

This reminds me of my ex who flirted and cracked jokes endlessly at waiting staff, he thought he was being nice but I thought he was being a knob, too loud, too personal and too rude

Lweji · 25/09/2015 22:54

It's one known thing to look for.
How prospective partners treat those who work for them. The most obvious and easy to observe are waitresses.

chchchchchangees · 25/09/2015 23:33

I think you sound vulnerable, sorry.

"He's very alpha, I can tell he would like to be the man who looks after me and 'saves' me from my (rather marvellous, but busy) life."

Why are you wasting your time on someone who thinks of you like this?

"My life is great already, he's a really nice addition."

What, an Alpha male who thinks he needs to rescue you? If your life was great you wouldn't be wasting your time on this.

Sorry. Sounds like you've done good work so far, keep it work and look out for losers like this.

Original poster

JasmineBuckles · 26/09/2015 04:46

This guy is not your equal. He is BENEATH you. He knows it and he is worried that you will figure him out. When he says he normally charms women, what he means is people normally fall for his total bullshit. He isnt nearly as smart as he comes across and he can tell you are smarter than him. Maybe he hasnt been with a woman who is smarter than him before.

So this struck a chord. I am smarter than him. We both know it, and I know smart is something that makes him insecure. My sister, who is off the scale intelligent, makes him a bit nervous.

His job is such that he effectively bullshits for a living. I have caught him giving me a bit of spiel a couple of times, and called him on it straight away. He's always laughed, admitted he was talking to me like I was a client, and then said what he really meant.

To answer a couple of questions, yes, he's appropriate and nice to waiting staff. Asks if they get the tip if he's paying by card, gives them cash if not. Is generally pleasant.

By 'just turning up', I don't really have time or headspace to organise things for us to do. We are meeting friends for lunch on Sunday, he text me a list of four options according to the criteria I gave him the night before (not Asian due to one of the parties peanut allergy, not Italian, not super expensive). I picked one, he booked it, I don't have to think about it.
If Im at his, I don't have to think about sorting dinner out, it will get to dinner time and he'll say, in or out? I'll pick, he'll either cook or sort a table out.

By asking the question, I know it's a red flag. I just don't know whether it's a 'tread carefully' red flag, or a 'RUN' red flag.

OP posts:

HellKitty · 26/09/2015 06:52

He actually has to be himself to keep me interested.
But does that mean that he's spent his entire adult life going out with women who he considers beneath him? And not his equal? And is that a red flag?

No he means he wasn't himself with every other woman he dated, so who was he then? And how do you know that your vision of him IS him and not part of his spiel. When I started going out with DP he wasn't himself for about 4 weeks and that was by not farting in my presence - I know, classy.

It's not the equal bit that bothers me, unless I've missed a post I wouldn't look too far into that. It's the fact he has different guises for different people. The one he's showing you is Mr Lovely to Everyone. He's building you up to not having to think, to be relying on him. Which is a type of control similar to you thinking he wants to save you.

ShebaShimmyShake · 26/09/2015 07:03

Eeshk. Anything along the lines of "you're too smart to fall for flattery" is flattery. A man who dates women he doesn't consider equals is a problem on many levels. And always a beware a man who wants to rescue you when you've already rescued yourself before you met him and like the life you've built....

LaContessaDiPlump · 26/09/2015 07:11

I'm tempted to give him the benefit of the doubt at the moment - at least for a few more dates. He's good at bullshitting but good natured enough to admit it, and doesn't treat people in a serving capacity twattily - thst you've seen yet anyway.

There might be a nice guy in there under the BS - no harm in spending a little time seeing if that's so. Obviously the deeper you have to dig, the less likely it is though

ShebaShimmyShake · 26/09/2015 07:11

He may do all these lovely things but if he doesn't consider the women his equals and admits he tries to charm people.....

tribpot · 26/09/2015 07:26

Funny - so you're smarter than him but that gets you an 'equal' rating?

He seems almost to be playing a helpmeet/trad female role in your relationship so far, yet I can tell he would like to be the man who looks after me and 'saves' me from my (rather marvellous, but busy) life.

How does he deal with a work rival? I'm guessing despite being an 'alpha' he doesn't go overly on the attack but instead deploys the charm offensive, looking for weakness to exploit.

JeffreysMummyIsCross · 26/09/2015 08:26

I know a man like this. He is married (unhappily now) to the one woman who was "his equal" but has been cheating on her for virtually the entirety of their 18 year relationship (including while she was pregnant) with a succession of young women. He likes to know that his "charm" still works.

Twinklestein · 26/09/2015 08:31

His job is such that he effectively bullshits for a living. I have caught him giving me a bit of spiel a couple of times, and called him on it straight away

I couldn't put up with someone like that. This is more of an automatic dealbreaker for me than the comment in the OP which may have been an unfortunate choice of words.

If he's using these techniques on you, you will always have to be on your guard to evaluate what he's saying. So when he said he 'charms' people he really means he bullshits people.

I wouldn't want to deal with someone who's not 100% straight down the line.

AskBasil · 26/09/2015 08:37

Well, it's been run up the flagpole and it's waving furiously in the breeze.

Even if it were true that he has never been with an equal before (and it's not, is it?) that would be the sign of a fucking raging narcissist who chooses partners on the basis of them making him feel smug about his own superiority.

Most women are far more interesting and clever than most men, IME. For him not to have found one who is an equal, means he's tried very hard not to. It's almost impossible for a man not to find a woman who is his intellectual superior, let alone his equal, unless he tries really hard not to.

Listen to your gut. It's telling you he's probably a twat. You're a sensible woman, your gut is probably right. And even if it's wrong, so what? What have you got to lose from binning him? A potential relationship with a man who has spent his youth with women he believes inferior to him? Doesn't sound like you'd be giving up an awful lot tbh.

AttilaTheMeerkat · 26/09/2015 09:10

How did you and he meet anyway?.

I would walk away now. He has seen something in you that can be potentially exploited to his own ends.

Some men do like "smart women" (I see you have described yourself as such) to take down; they see them as a challenge. You are his challenge.

LaContessaDiPlump · 26/09/2015 09:14

I think many posters are giving this guy far too much credit - he sounds positively machivellian! Do none of you know people who drift through life doing whatever's easiest? A person who discovers that 'charm' works will keep doing it, and gravitate towards those who respond well to it without really making a conscious effort. Hell, I gravitate towards the edgy questioning types because I like dealing with them better and get better results - same principle.

Op, if you're so different to others that he's been with but he is still keen, then I think that's a point in his favour frankly. The telling part will be if he tries to make you change (in ways other than the natural give and take of being in a relationship). The way to tell is to find a friend/relative whose opinion you trust and to check in with them (or us!) if you've got concerns and then to not ignore anything negative they say but carefully keep it in mind.

Dh's mum was shocked at me when we first got together - she said to DH 'You've never been with someone who challenges you like this before!' in horrified tones 5 years on and I'm just as bolshy forthright as ever.

I find MN a little quick to judge male actions sometimes (when the actions are not overwhelming in number or severity) so do bear that inind. However one dissenting voice isn't necessarily right, so do please weigh up everyone's words too.

Good luck!

duckyneedsaclean · 26/09/2015 09:29

OP did he actually say "I've never been out with someone who's my equal before"?

Because it sounds as though you read that through the lines of what he actually said?

verystressedmum · 26/09/2015 09:38

Sooner or later his insecurities will rear their head and he won't be able to handle a woman who is his equal..he'll grind you down until you know your 'rightful' place. I'd get out now if I were you.

FantasticButtocks · 26/09/2015 09:44

When someone tells you who they are...believe them.

FrenchPlaits · 26/09/2015 09:49

His comment would be a red flag for me. I personally just couldn't get on with a person who sees other human beings in those terms ('equal/not equal'?Really??).

He also sounds like a 'rescuer' - the round trip for your sister, for example, when this is a VERY new relationship, so presumably he hardly knows her and your lives are not entwined to the extent that you share family responsibilities. That sort of 'kind' gesture seems way OTT and does fit with a pattern I have seen many times with controlling men and vulnerable women.

I'd draw right back and get some distance from this man, personally. You dont know him that well and he is already saying some worrying things. Don't rush in.

suzannecaravan · 26/09/2015 09:58

Sounds as if he's sees you as a challenge, aims to put you in your proper place, beneath and beholden to him.

Then again a skilled manipulator wouldn't show his hand like that.
I don't think it's going to be difficult to think a few moves ahead of him, but do you want your relationship to be a game in which you are trying to outwit your opponent? ?

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