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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

He's not a bastard but he's behaved like he is. Confused.

875 replies

ComeDownToMe · 12/09/2015 12:55

DP and I have been together nearly 2 years. We live together and it's great. We get on fantastically, he's witty, engaging, kind, supportive. The sex is amazing and we enjoy each other's company.

It started out as a casual relationship and I had a lot stronger feelings for him than he did me. But we ended up spending a lot more time together and grew a lot closer and our relationship turned serious.

The thing is one of my closest friends recently discovered her DH (now STBXH) was cheating on her and I've seen at first hand how broken she has been. Her ex has been an utter cunt and makes my blood boil.

My DP cheated on his then wife and she slung him out so I know everything I've said about my friend's ex I could equally say about my DP. I didn't feel good about this before but it's even worse now.

Can men really compartmentalise to such a degree they don't think about how much hurt they would cause someone they love.

I will probably be criticised for this and rightly so but I wasn't particularly judgemental on men having affairs before as long as no one got hurt. Now I've seen the hurt it feels a bit different.

I don't think of my DP as a bastard but he's done a lot worse than my friend's ex and I've called my friend's ex every name under the fucking sun.

How do I resolve this in my own mind.

OP posts:
AndDeepBreath · 15/09/2015 09:50

Sorry, I've realised that my remarks up thread were perhaps overly-frustrated and have asked MN to remove them (just couldn't believe what I was reading here, still can't actually.) All the best OP. You've had some good advice on here - do yourself a big favour and listen.

BertPuttocks · 15/09/2015 09:52

Do you still not see that his story of the poor neglected man who tried to talk about the problems with his wife but with no success just doesn't add up?

He says that his wife didn't make time for him and that the marriage had gone stale.

You've said yourself that he is a workaholic. How on earth was his wife supposed to bestow attention on someone who presumably wasn't even in the house very often?

You've also seen for yourself that he's not a man who takes on an equal share of the household jobs, so presumably his wife was also taking on his share too, as well as caring for two children. You've also said that his wife didn't really have any time to herself. Again, how was his wife supposed to find time or opportunity for giving him more attention?

"He did repeatedly try and talk to his wife about the issues in their relationship but nothing changed."

If you've been avoiding reading the cheating threads, you may have missed one of the common themes of affairs. They often start with the wife being given a list of her perceived faults, yet curiously their DH doesn't seem to show any interest in actually doing anything towards actually fixing those problems.

The "You never make time for me!" brigade have no interest in either taking on a greater share of the workload to allow for that extra time, or in arranging for a babysitter so that they can go out together, or even cutting back a little on those long hours of work. This is usually because the affair has either already started or because they have someone lined up.

They then skip off to their affair partner and say "Well I tried to talk to her but nothing changed."

Sound familiar?

LyndaNotLinda · 15/09/2015 09:52

As I was the one who brought up his higher earning, I apologise for making that assumption. Having said that, if you earn more than him and still do the lion's share of the wifework, you're an even bigger mug than I thought at first.

You really deserve better.

brokenhearted55a · 15/09/2015 10:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheStoic · 15/09/2015 10:18

You only realised the hurt you caused his wife when you saw it in your friend?

That's some major mental gymnastics you did there, for a very long time.

If I were you, I'd be getting some help for my own issues and not worrying about him. He's a lost cause.

brokenhearted55a · 15/09/2015 10:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ToGoBoldly · 15/09/2015 10:20

She didn't cause the husband to neglect his marriage, he did that on his own.

OP I don't believe in karma either, otherwise we would not have situations where innocents get hurt and the bad people get away with it (which they do far often than they get a comeuppance). None of us are saints, but telling yourself you deserve to be in a bad sitution will only mean you settle for it. You can ditch him and learn from your mistake. Or you can refuse to learn from it, but by doing that you have to accept that you are making a rod for your own back.

WeakNamechange · 15/09/2015 10:21

Oh come on, don't be so gullible. He doesn't cheat because of some spurious problems within the marriage. He cheats because he can and wants to. No deeper meaning than that.

I bet you anything you like that he's looked around and tried it on with others since being in a relationship with you.

Would he be living with you now if his wife hadn't chucked him out? He didn't want to be alone, so now he's with you. Funny how he got more serious about you when he didn't have his wife to cheat on anymore.

brokenhearted55a · 15/09/2015 10:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2015 10:36

Did he move in with you, OP? Is it your flat?

ToGoBoldly · 15/09/2015 10:41

Him fixing his marriage was not OP's responsibility. She didn't keep him from doing that, he has a brain as well as a penis so the breaking of the marriage vows was his fault - saying otherwise absolves him of the blame. It's hardly like she can say "well if only I hadn't come along their marriage will still be lovely". In fact, when all is settled the wife can thank fuck that someone has been enough of a mug to free her from her perennially cheating husband, knowing that the OW was foolish enough to do this fully aware of what he is like, not oblivious like she was.

OP has made an error but the marriage was doomed way before she came along. If he's been cheating for 15-20 years, the OP was possibly still at school when he first started cheating on his wife. The OP blaming herself for all or even half the ills of his marriage is pointless.

brokenhearted55a · 15/09/2015 10:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ToGoBoldly · 15/09/2015 10:52

Ah yea, well I can't say the OP should feel guilty or like she deserves badness because he didn't work on his marriage. What he should have done, if the marriage was so bad, is end it first, so if she does believe he tried to resolve the marriage issues she is foolish, yes I agree.

Joysmum · 15/09/2015 11:15

Well said BertPuttucks (great name btw!)

BathtimeFunkster · 15/09/2015 12:05

She should feel guilty for taking part in treating another human being like a piece of shit.

I think part of being a person (not even an especially nice one) comes with an implicit promise that you won't treat other people (even strangers) badly for your own amusement.

SevenSeconds · 15/09/2015 12:08

But in fairness to the OP, she does seem to be experiencing (rather belated) feelings of guilt, otherwise she wouldn't have started and engaged with this thread.

BathtimeFunkster · 15/09/2015 12:33

The thread isn't about her (extraordinarily belated realisation that the woman whose life she helped to devastate is a person) but about her equally belated realisation that a man who treats his family like shit so he can get his end away probably isn't someone it makes sense to trust.

She's with a man for whom she knows she was second choice.

His preference was to stay married to the wife she believes was so inadequate she didn't count as human and in a marriage so unhappy he never would have left it by choice.

Clearly he was extremely happy being married and having all his domestic needs met by his wife whilst shagging around behind her back.

Now his domestic needs are being met by the OP...

This thread is about self-interest - can I trust him? (duh, no. If you had meant that much to him he would have left his marriage for you. You are the booby prize. He's probably partially motivated to stay with you as a way to punish his wife for kicking him out.)

Original poster
ComeDownToMe · 15/09/2015 12:51

I do feel guilty and of course I care his wife got hurt. I'm not fucking heartless. I know she's devastated and I feel ashamed I have played a part in her devastation.

I haven't seen her in pieces or sobbing her heart out but I have now seen my friend in such a state for the same reasons and it has really hit home just what we've done to her.

Even if I dumped him I can't erase her pain. I did not consider my self a bitch but I now feel like one. I've seen how tormented my friend is, how eaten up she is by mentally torturing herself picturing her ex with his OW and I have done the same to my DP's wife.

I've been a fucking cow, I will always be the woman who broke his family up and hurt 3 innocent people.

OP posts:
ToGoBoldly · 15/09/2015 13:01

Your friend will eventually stop torturing herself and be thankful that she no longer lives with someone who won't respect her. Same with the wife.

You can't erase their pain but their pain will lessen in time, that's nothing to do with you. You didn't cause their pain (he can and did fuck other women before and probably as well as you), nor can you fix it, so focussing on that is futile.

You can, however, avoid manufacturing your own future of pain. Feeling ashamed and guilty is normal, but it's what you do with those feelings now that matters. Yea you can feel like a bitch blah blah blah, but what do you want to do? Stick with a man who treats a wife like shit? (and don't think that even if he won't cheat on you he's not treating you badly - he's doing that by letting you take on most of the scutwork at home). Or give yourself some time out to find out why you behaved in the way you did, make peace with it and move on to a life where you are not being treated like shit, be it alone or with someone else?

YouBastardSockBalls · 15/09/2015 13:01

Well, he was the one who broke his family up. If it hadn't been you he was shagging, it would have been someone else.

But why settle for this shit? Why not say, yes, I've done wrong, he's a bastard, then leave him and find your self respect.

By staying with someone with such loose morals and selfishness as him, you're only opening yourself up to further hurt down the line.

BathtimeFunkster · 15/09/2015 13:04

I will always be the woman who broke his family up and hurt 3 innocent people.

Don't flatter yourself.

They probably could have recovered from you.

Their marriage ended because you were the last in a long line of mistresses, not because your affair was particularly significant.

Arguably you did his wife a favour.

The children will never see it that way, of course.

Late teens/early adults can be implacable when it comes to welcoming the OW/OM that helped to devastate their parent.

A good friend of mine has refused to meet her father's OW for over 20 years.

She is left out of all family occasions. She has never met, and will never meet, his grandchildren.

But at least she knows that he loved her enough to leave his marriage for her...

BertrandRussell · 15/09/2015 13:14

How can someone reach the age of 30 without realising that sleeping with married men hurts people?

Gabilan · 15/09/2015 13:21

OP I do feel sorry for you. I feel more sorry for your friend and for your "D"P's wife but I feel sorry for you too. You fell for his lies. He wasn't that keen on you but for you were OK for a while. Then his wife kicked him out and oh look, suddenly you start to look a lot better in his eyes. He's doing brilliantly. He has a woman who's 20 years younger than him, earns more and does all his housework too. I'd be bloody stoked if I could find a fit young man to look after me in my impending dotage.

I think you've had some very good advice on this thread. If you want kids or think you might (and it's none of my business) you need to get out now. Your 30s go very quickly and you do not want to waste them on this man. If you don't want kids you still shouldn't waste time on him but it's not, IMO, quite such an issue. I agree with ToGoBoldly. You cannot change what's happened but you can move on. You can make sure that you learn from this and don't make the same mistakes again (at which point any sympathy I feel would dry up).

I've never been the OW. This is in part for altruistic reasons but I'd also have to admit it's for selfish reasons. I work on the basis that if someone can cheat on his wife with me, he can cheat on me with someone else. Frankly I don't want to be with someone who is capable of cheating so I don't do it. If I want no-strings fun I find someone who has no strings. If I want commitment, well I'm shit at that but at least I'm not hurting anyone.

I also worry that if I'm someone's exit strategy, they would be with me because they want to get out, not because they want to be with me. It's not flattering, is it? "Oh, you're better than being on my own or with my wife, who doesn't understand me, you'll do." No, if you have a problem with a relationship, fix it or leave. If you leave, then give me a call, but not before.

Please OP, don't bury your head in the sand. Take a long look at your P, yourself and your relationship. Superficial charm whilst you're getting your own way is easy. Genuine kindness when the going gets tough is a lot more difficult. It appears to me you P can manage the former but not the latter.

Gabilan · 15/09/2015 13:26

I should add that I've never said "give me a call if you leave" nor would I as it looks far too much like an invitation. Been tempted and thought it, possibly, said it, no. I look for partners who've had a gap between relationships, not those who hop from one to another.

thehypocritesoaf · 15/09/2015 13:28

What do you mean she fell for his lies?

Op thought having affairs are fine, as long as no one finds out. She knew he was married. They were meant to be just having no strings sex and then the wife found out and slung him out.

OP, was he your first married fella - just out of interest?