A friend accused of DV - should I stop talking to him?

[DeeDeeR]

I'm a single mum of a 8 year old boy. I separated from my husband 3 years ago due to DV. I met a guy two months ago and we have become great friends. I'm slowly starting to see him as potential for something more but haven't shared this with him yet.

He separated from his wife in January 2015 after he woke up one morning to find her and their 2 year son gone. He then received an ex parte non-molestation order. His ex wife accused him of DV since their start of the relationship in 2007 and submitted photos of bruises that she took in 2012 ans 2013 (a nose bleed, what appears to be a black eye and bruises on the arm). She also submitted a tape recording of an argument between them where he can be heard pleading with her to stop seeing other men behind his back, to just leave him and that if she doesn't leave and continues to have affairs he'll assault her. Although no assault takes place in the recording. The recording was made by her in secret one week before she left him.

Believe it or not, he told me all this on the first day I met him at the pub. At the Non-molestation order hearing he denied the allegations of physical assault but admitted to making threats. He said that his wife had subjected him to emotional abuse shortly after their son was born after she told him that she didnt love him and wanted to leave. However, she didnt leave but carried on with the marriage. This caused tension between the two and she would often go out of her way to antagonise him and goad him about her seeing other men. They had heated arguments but he claims he never assaulted her. He told the judge that his wife met someone else and has set up so that she could end the marriage in a way that she could get full custody of their son and restrict contact.

The judge considered the evidence and made "No finding of fact" in regards to the allegations but upheld the order since she thought it was better they be kept apart for a year.

She repeated the DV allegations at the first child custody hearing in Feb 2015 and was offered a 'Fact Finding' however she turned it down citing that the abuse was only emotional and financial. So the judge ordered a social service report, where she then repeated the physical abuse again.

He then received another social service report in August 2015 recommending that his son have regular unsupervised access to him since the son clearly misses the father and is visibly upset when having to say goodbye to his dad when contact centre visits come to end.

Two days after the report his ex gets him arrested for allegedly assaulting her in 2009. She claims he smashed her head across a sink and then went on holiday with mates for 3 weeks. She then repeated all the allegations she made in the family proceedings to the police.

He is currently released on bail and is being investigated.

I know all this since he opened up to me and showed me all his and her court documents. He is self representing in court and is alone in all of this and in need of friends. He says he is innocent but I'm scared what if he's not. Then again, if he is innocent I dont want to walk away and ruin a relationship with a decent guy.

His ex wifes story just has too many holes in in:

• She's a solicitor, and if he had subjected her to DV since 2007 why report it only in 2015. Why didnt she leave.

• why did she wait to tell the police shortly after the social service report and a week before the final hearing

• why did she turn down a fact finding at the first hearing

Then again, he did threaten her but he has self referred to anger management courses and speaking to him he comes across as someone who is genuinely sorry for the threats and is seeking to address is.

I was subjected to DV during my marriage but the minute it happened I walked away. I know not all women are like this. Not sure if I should give him benefit of doubt or just walk away.

If his wife subjected him to emotional abuse, why didn't he walk away, if you are going with that argument? Do you need a relationship with someone who at best has problems containing his anger and makes threats to his wife?

Hey, well he said he was in love with her and wanted to save their marriage. According to him, her revelation about not loving him and wanting to leave came out of the blue. Then after saying that she didnt leave, this confused him and he misinterpreted it as there being a chance that the marriage could be saved.

I agree he should have left but, playing devils advocate, he was the one who was still in love and tried to address he problem. If she didn't love him and wanted to leave, why did she stick around arguing with him? Just leave.

If he was beating her since 2007, the start of their relationship, why report it only now in 2015 during child custody proceedings.

Why only contact the police after the social services recommend that their son have regular unsupervised contact against her wishes that contact should remain supervised.

Why did she not get him arrested with the non-molestation order. Why wait 7 months to repeat the same allegations she used in the famiy court to the police.

Why did she turn down a fact finding hearing in a family court considering the evidence and say it was only emotional and financial.

Her story has too many contradiction. This is not what he told I have read this in her family court witness statements that he gets a copy of.

You're right though, its a gamble. Then again, what if he's innocent.

yea he has problems with his anger and made a threat BUT he never denied it and is addressing it. That is ok with me.

My issue is the other allegations.

you sound like you've made your mind up already

why does any woman take so long to report an abuser? You saying she didn't report it doesn't mean it didn't happen. Why would you believe him and not her? Surely you know of the cycle of abuse, how women are conditioned to believe abuse is their fault, how they tread on eggshells hoping he won't do it again.

It seems to me like you are digging to find reasons to discredit her to convince yourself that he is a decent man. I would recommend you run for the hills as fast as your little legs will carry you quite frankly. Even if he only has anger issues, that is enough of a red flag to tell you to avoid him surely?

Run run like the wind! Seriously

You're not really looking for a discussion are you? You just want us to say "that's fine, love, on you go".

And btw, if you haven't done it already, then please access the Freedom Programme as a top priority.

MindYourOwn,

I agree with you. I personally ended my marriage after the first incident. I also understand that there are many women who find it hard to report abuse for many years for various reasons.

However, there are too many holes in her story. The main one being why turn down a fact finding at the first child hearing and say the abuse was only emotional and financial, and them repeat the physical abuse to the social worker outside of the court. Why didnt she get him arrested with the non-molestation order. Why wait to call the cops until after he gets a positive report.

I'm just sharing for peoples views. I havent made my mind up but Im playing devils advocate just to see the responses. Its best to get both sides before making a decision.

^*If he was beating her since 2007, the start of their relationship, why report it only now in 2015 during child custody proceedings.

Why only contact the police after the social services recommend that their son have regular unsupervised contact against her wishes that contact should remain supervised.

Why did she not get him arrested with the non-molestation order. Why wait 7 months to repeat the same allegations she used in the famiy court to the police.

Why did she turn down a fact finding hearing in a family court considering the evidence and say it was only emotional and financial.*^

Obviously nobody can answer those questions but the ex-wife. I have read enough on here to know that there isn't always a simple and perfect timeline where DV is involved. There are so many complicating emotions that prevent one from doing what seems to others the rational and right thing to do at the time. My first thought when I read this list is maybe she just wanted to get on with her life and was more comfortable with just having no contact with him than seeking justice and seeing him court ... then, when it became obvious that her kids would have to see (their allegedly abusive father) she didn't want to expose them to that and realised she had to fight with everything she had even at the risk of bringing up old stuff she had wanted to bury.

As I said that was just my first thought, it's not the truth but I don't think it's out there as a possibility. Anyway, others with more experience and knowledge will hopefully come along and comment.

I just think that if you have been through an abusive relationship this guy probably isn't your best bet. There is too much ambiguity and doubt. Wouldn't it be better to wait for someone who doesn't have this sort of history hanging over him?

what is the exact nature of the threats he admits to having made?

"Even if he only has anger issues, that is enough of a red flag to tell you to avoid him surely?"

This.

Another thought: if he did not assault his ex, the accusations still indicate that he is inclined towards deeply unstable relationships, if nothing else. And his continual refusal to leave through that profound instability speaks volumes.

Your very carefully laid out defences of him are one-sided. You are already invested. Given your own history of DV, I would say that you still very much caught in a cycle, even if it is simply being drawn to the energy of it.

Regardless of what I felt for myself hell would freeze over before I let a man with anger issues near my 8 year old child.

you *are still very much caught in a cycle

well lots of us don't end a marriage after the first incident, and lots of stuff has to be dragged up in retrospect in the hope that dc will not be given unsupervised access to an abusive man. And having read so many woeful stories, some abusive men are still granted unsupervised access when it clearly should not be given.

But how should we know the answers as to why she said what she did and when. Maybe you should ask her.

if he did not assault his ex, the accusations still indicate that he is inclined towards deeply unstable relationships, if nothing else. And his continual refusal to leave through that profound instability speaks volumes.

^^ This, 100% this.

If you left a DV relationship then in my opinion you shouldn't risk it with this man at all. They seek out vulnerable women. Just don't risk it.
If you insist, be his friend, from a distance. Don't get involved in a relationship with him.I speak from experience of getting into a relationship with someone who also didn't have enough evidence against him in a fact finding thing. Totally believed him. Everyone believer him. He's very believable. Big mistake.

Also - if he didn't assault her, then who the hell did? His story is littered with holes non?

What does him having contact with their son got to do with their relationship. He can spend time with his son without having to see her. I know that possible because my son still see's my ex and I haven't seen my ex for 5 years. The exchanges are done between him and my parents.

I'm sorry but I cant help but shake the feeling that DV is being used to control custody. Far too many contradictions.

Lets not forget that fact that his ex is a practicing lawyer, she studied criminal law. Something just doesnt seem right to me.

Maybe I am invested and want to believe him. I just wanted to share my thoughts and see the response.

Thanks

Also, Im not in cycle of DV. I got slapped and I divorced. Thats the end of it. Im not vulnerable.

I just like to judge people based on facts and what I can see.

He had no reason to tell me all this. He could have hid it like many men do but he was open. He admitted to the threats and is attending anger classes since he said he felt ashamed. Everyone deserves a second chance.

However, he denies the physical and there is still doubt.

Ignoring the DV accusations, he has only been singke for 8 months and is still very much connected to his ex is a very complicated scenario. Why would you want to get so involved with their lives after only knowing him for such a short amount of time? Do you possibly have a need to fix?

So he admits the emotional and financial abuse?

what has her being a lawyer got to do anything? Why don't you speak to her to find out the truth.

Nobody here is going to tell you to trust and believe everything he says. You seem angry that nobody is encouraging you to pursue this man.

Have you done the Freedom Programme?

I think if you want to be a platonic friend and support him through this, then you'd be OK. But there's no way I'd consider getting into a relationship with someone with this history, it's too risky.

Calleigh, no he denies that. However, he admitted to threatening her in the heat of the moment.

However, the judge in the court report said its obvious that the wife instigated the argument for the sole purpose of incriminating the husband so that she could use it as evidence in child proceedings. That he was clearly at the end of his emotional tether and something must have happened or been said to get him into that emotional state. Also that it was telling that despite her allegation of systematic physical violence, no assault takes place and that she has submitted no recording of assaults despite her obviously seceretly recording arguments between them over a number of years.