A friend accused of DV - should I stop talking to him?

[DeeDeeR]

I'm a single mum of a 8 year old boy. I separated from my husband 3 years ago due to DV. I met a guy two months ago and we have become great friends. I'm slowly starting to see him as potential for something more but haven't shared this with him yet.

He separated from his wife in January 2015 after he woke up one morning to find her and their 2 year son gone. He then received an ex parte non-molestation order. His ex wife accused him of DV since their start of the relationship in 2007 and submitted photos of bruises that she took in 2012 ans 2013 (a nose bleed, what appears to be a black eye and bruises on the arm). She also submitted a tape recording of an argument between them where he can be heard pleading with her to stop seeing other men behind his back, to just leave him and that if she doesn't leave and continues to have affairs he'll assault her. Although no assault takes place in the recording. The recording was made by her in secret one week before she left him.

Believe it or not, he told me all this on the first day I met him at the pub. At the Non-molestation order hearing he denied the allegations of physical assault but admitted to making threats. He said that his wife had subjected him to emotional abuse shortly after their son was born after she told him that she didnt love him and wanted to leave. However, she didnt leave but carried on with the marriage. This caused tension between the two and she would often go out of her way to antagonise him and goad him about her seeing other men. They had heated arguments but he claims he never assaulted her. He told the judge that his wife met someone else and has set up so that she could end the marriage in a way that she could get full custody of their son and restrict contact.

The judge considered the evidence and made "No finding of fact" in regards to the allegations but upheld the order since she thought it was better they be kept apart for a year.

She repeated the DV allegations at the first child custody hearing in Feb 2015 and was offered a 'Fact Finding' however she turned it down citing that the abuse was only emotional and financial. So the judge ordered a social service report, where she then repeated the physical abuse again.

He then received another social service report in August 2015 recommending that his son have regular unsupervised access to him since the son clearly misses the father and is visibly upset when having to say goodbye to his dad when contact centre visits come to end.

Two days after the report his ex gets him arrested for allegedly assaulting her in 2009. She claims he smashed her head across a sink and then went on holiday with mates for 3 weeks. She then repeated all the allegations she made in the family proceedings to the police.

He is currently released on bail and is being investigated.

I know all this since he opened up to me and showed me all his and her court documents. He is self representing in court and is alone in all of this and in need of friends. He says he is innocent but I'm scared what if he's not. Then again, if he is innocent I dont want to walk away and ruin a relationship with a decent guy.

His ex wifes story just has too many holes in in:

• She's a solicitor, and if he had subjected her to DV since 2007 why report it only in 2015. Why didnt she leave.

• why did she wait to tell the police shortly after the social service report and a week before the final hearing

• why did she turn down a fact finding at the first hearing

Then again, he did threaten her but he has self referred to anger management courses and speaking to him he comes across as someone who is genuinely sorry for the threats and is seeking to address is.

I was subjected to DV during my marriage but the minute it happened I walked away. I know not all women are like this. Not sure if I should give him benefit of doubt or just walk away.

Whether or not she is emotionally abusive is irrelevant. You are not thinking about dating her, are you?

Or are you saying she made him do it? If she hadn't made him so upset/angry, he wouldn't have threatened her?

You realise, of course, that is the oldest excuse in the book regarding DV. If you hadn't pissed me off, I wouldn't have xxxxx...

It's no excuse. He is responsible for his own behaviour. Her behaviour is irrelevant in the scope of whether or not you should consider him "date material."

BettyBerry,

Finally a unbiased rationale response. I agree. What you say makes total sense. They are both at fault and the fact that he stuck around despite the abuse is worrying.

I will remain friends but thats it.

There's to many what if involved.

Cheers.

Ok look at it another way (then ive got tonget on with ym day!), he wouldnt leave his abusive ex and had to threaten her in order to make her leave because he loves her too much. The drama is ongoing. Youve known him 8 weeks.

He sounds like he needs a HUGE amount of counselling. He should UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES start a new relationship. looking at the statement above, he will be too vulnerable to feel like he can be on his own and might look for a rebound relationship to make it an easier transition for him. You shoild walk away.

LouiePuddingLane,

rather than copy pasting a segment of what I wrote copy-paste the entire sentence. I wrote, SHE, the wife said "the abuse was mostly emotional and financial" after SHE turned down a fact finding in court to address the physical violence.

Interesting how you skipped that vital bit of information.

I was going to tell you all about my friend who is highly educated and has actually worked the field of DV but still got involved with a highly abusive man, who has never been arrested.

But what's the point.

You're talking about getting involved with a man who thinks its ok to threaten to hit a woman he claims to love.

The over-sharing and getting you so involved so soon is a red flag alone.

While you're an adult and can do what you want with your life why would you risk involving your child in this car crash?

CalleighDoodle,

You're right. I'll just remain friends. There is too much doubt, and guilty or not, he needs councelling because at the very least he is going to be paranoid about women cheating on him now.

I'll help him get councelling. The fact that he self referred to anger management is a good sign. Even the social service report applauded him for doing that and the for the fact he attended and self funded and completed a 20 week parenting course. One of the reasons why I believe the ex had him arrested to derail whatever chance he had of unsupervised contact.

For the record, his ex is engaged. Strange how her being a woman who has just come out of an abusive relationship did not bother her new man. Maybe because she was seeing him whilst she was married to someone else and they both knew what was happening.

Alice already said it but the reason I'm interested in his behaviour is because he's the one you are friends with. There's nothing irrational or biased about that.

I think to maintain a rational and unbiased focus stop all the 2nd and 3rd hand conjecture about his ex and look at what you do know about him and take it from, or leave it, there.

You are far FAR too worked up and worried about her behaviour. She does not matter here.

HE is the one you're considering dating or being friends with.
HE is the one that made threats (according your comments, the recording was her being silent and him ranting at her, then making threats, then walking out - doesn't sound like someone in the heat of an argument, sounds like someone in a rage IMO)

You need to realise that what she does has nothing to do with you. You are allowing him to detract from his behaviour by highlighting hers. Focus on his behaviour. In or out of context, it's not great.

Some of you keep bringing up the "educated women can suffer abuse" arguments.

I agree with you. I dont know how many times I can repeat it.

What I am questioning is a lawyer, with criminal and family law training, would tolerate DV without once in their entire marriage reporting it to the police, family or even friends. In regards to the financial abuse, they had separate bank accounts and she heard significantly more than him. Finally he was the primary carer of the son since he worked from home. She works long hours in the city.

Yes, I understand this is mumsnet and we need to defend women alway, I only shared since her story just doesnt ring true to me. There's something just not right. I know it shouldnt but its really bugging me.

for example, she says he smashed her head acorss a sink breaking an eye socket in 2009. He then went on holiday with his mates for 3 weeks. Where's the medical report? Also why didnt she leave in that 3 week period he was out of the country? Surely a lawyer will know that all she has to do is call the cops, show the injury, get a restraining order and bang, he's out of her life for good.

I dont know.

I'll drop it. Just wanted your views. Thanks.

I don't understand. Why is everyone automatically on her side?

IF he didn't assualt her, then surely she's the abuser, emotionally abusing him, cheating on him etc?

Why are people quick to rush to her defence re. not leaving her abuser, but everyone seems to think he could just walk off? Even if he was violent, she's hardly innocent is she? That's not to justify or excuse what he's done, but why is everyone being so black and white about it? If she'd become violent to him after prolongued emotional abuse, would you all be equally keen to say "well, she should have just left" or would you consider she was trapped/attached/potentially had issues herself that made it harder?

Sorry but I've been the apparently crazy/in the wrong side of an abusive relationship because the actual abuser and antagoniser played it so bloody well! (Came out in the end though...)

It all sounds dodgy as fuck though, tbh I suspect they are both lying to some degree, both in the wrong, and both with humungous emotional issues. I would stay well away from any idea of romantic relationship. And bear in mind that you can't take anything he says about this as fact (eg. do you really know what the judge decided or did he report back?)

Clearly you don't accept how abuse victims can be beaten down, or it seem normal to them, or they love their partner, or don't want to break up their family, or read about how victims are let down by the police and the courts, or any of the other reasons why abuse victims don't leave their partners, even if they are lawyers...

Element of surprise,

I have read all the court documents, solicitor reports etc. He needed someone to talk to and when I told him I was a victim of DV he came out and told me what he was accused off.

@Liviadrusilla,

"Clearly you don't accept how abuse victims can be beaten down, or it seem normal to them, or they love their partner, or don't want to break up their family, or read about how victims are let down by the police and the courts, or any of the other reasons why abuse victims don't leave their partners, even if they are lawyers..."

Everything you just wrote can be used to explain why HE didnt walk away from the relationship since its painfully obvious he was subjected to emotional abuse as well.

Strange how her being a woman who has just come out of an abusive relationship did not bother her new man

and your friend is potentially also newly exited from a relationship with a lying, manipulative abuser

I'm not on either side, I just think it's nothing to do with the OP so why get drawn in?

I don't presume to know what went on in their relationship, just object to your claims that because she didn't leave him it 'doesn't sit right' to you or there's 'something not right.' Those are the kind of insidious, sly comments which cast doubt or blame on any victim who is judged not to have behaved perfectly and left at the first red flag. They are very damaging to victims in general IMO.

I apologise - the first quote should be it doesn't 'ring true'.

I didn't ring police. Ever. Does that mean I have not experienced abuse?? Don't be judgemental.

I was IN an abusive relationship for years and still went to work at the police every day. Did I tell them? Fuck no. I was embarrassed, tired, confused, stressed.

liviadrusilla,

What doesnt sit right is why she turned down a fact finding hearing and why she didnt get him arrested after she got the non-molestation order on him.

yes, you can argue she felt liberated and eventually decided to go to the police for justice. although, the fact that she did it one week before the child custody hearing and few days after a report is released saying that he should have regular contact with his son (something she is against) makes it all dodgy as f*ck. I'm sorry but thats how i feel.

the child hearing has now been postponed pending the police investigaton and he's back seeing his son at the contact centre, just like how she wants it.

Ive read the report, she has made no allegations between him and the son and even said the son misses him and he is a good father. He has also attended and completed anger managment classes and parenting classes to address areas of concern. He did this on his own and not ordered by a court. So what the hell is she doing? He just wants to take his son to the park and home for a few hours and then bring him back. he even offered the court a promise to bring his son back and that exchhanges can occur at the contact centre or police station or by 3 rd parties.

So what the hell is she doing?

To me its he continuing her emotional abuse.

I think that possibly you might take a risk for yourself, that you would not take in respect of an 8yo child.

I often laugh when I hear separated fathers moaning about how the family courts are sexist against men. Its the complete opposite. They are biased towards women purely for a patriarchal agenda. Women becoming primary carers makes it harder for them to succeed in careers since they need to concentrate on children, whereas men (the father) will have more time to pursue their careers. Its just another way of keeping us down.

Yet men can't see that.

However, lets not pretend that there are women who lie and use DV as an Ace card.

Which ever way you look at this he is either an abuser or a vulnerable person just out of an abusive relationship.

Neither seems a promising bet for a relationship.

And as posted up thread if he is the victim he comes with a lot of baggage.

Again, it doesn't matter whether or not she has lied. HE has admitted to making the threats and not behaving well either. Based just on his behaviour alone, I'd avoid him.

You said "What I am questioning is a lawyer, with criminal and family law training, would tolerate DV without once in their entire marriage reporting it to the police, family or even friends".

This put me in mind of a post I read on here not so long ago. It was written by a woman in an abusive relationship. I can't quite recall the exact detail but the poster and her abusive partner both worked in a field with a focus on violent abuse either they were academics and/or professionals, I think even with responsibility for counselling offenders and those who have been on the receiving end of abuse.

I do remember the poster saying how could it be, with all her experience and knowledge, that she couldn't see this coming and couldn't get out of it.

Nothing is black and white. Absolutely nothing.