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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

A friend accused of DV - should I stop talking to him?

159 replies

DeeDeeR · 19/08/2015 09:52

I'm a single mum of a 8 year old boy. I separated from my husband 3 years ago due to DV. I met a guy two months ago and we have become great friends. I'm slowly starting to see him as potential for something more but haven't shared this with him yet.

He separated from his wife in January 2015 after he woke up one morning to find her and their 2 year son gone. He then received an ex parte non-molestation order. His ex wife accused him of DV since their start of the relationship in 2007 and submitted photos of bruises that she took in 2012 ans 2013 (a nose bleed, what appears to be a black eye and bruises on the arm). She also submitted a tape recording of an argument between them where he can be heard pleading with her to stop seeing other men behind his back, to just leave him and that if she doesn't leave and continues to have affairs he'll assault her. Although no assault takes place in the recording. The recording was made by her in secret one week before she left him.

Believe it or not, he told me all this on the first day I met him at the pub. At the Non-molestation order hearing he denied the allegations of physical assault but admitted to making threats. He said that his wife had subjected him to emotional abuse shortly after their son was born after she told him that she didnt love him and wanted to leave. However, she didnt leave but carried on with the marriage. This caused tension between the two and she would often go out of her way to antagonise him and goad him about her seeing other men. They had heated arguments but he claims he never assaulted her. He told the judge that his wife met someone else and has set up so that she could end the marriage in a way that she could get full custody of their son and restrict contact.

The judge considered the evidence and made "No finding of fact" in regards to the allegations but upheld the order since she thought it was better they be kept apart for a year.

She repeated the DV allegations at the first child custody hearing in Feb 2015 and was offered a 'Fact Finding' however she turned it down citing that the abuse was only emotional and financial. So the judge ordered a social service report, where she then repeated the physical abuse again.

He then received another social service report in August 2015 recommending that his son have regular unsupervised access to him since the son clearly misses the father and is visibly upset when having to say goodbye to his dad when contact centre visits come to end.

Two days after the report his ex gets him arrested for allegedly assaulting her in 2009. She claims he smashed her head across a sink and then went on holiday with mates for 3 weeks. She then repeated all the allegations she made in the family proceedings to the police.

He is currently released on bail and is being investigated.

I know all this since he opened up to me and showed me all his and her court documents. He is self representing in court and is alone in all of this and in need of friends. He says he is innocent but I'm scared what if he's not. Then again, if he is innocent I dont want to walk away and ruin a relationship with a decent guy.

His ex wifes story just has too many holes in in:

  • She's a solicitor, and if he had subjected her to DV since 2007 why report it only in 2015. Why didnt she leave.
  • why did she wait to tell the police shortly after the social service report and a week before the final hearing
  • why did she turn down a fact finding at the first hearing

Then again, he did threaten her but he has self referred to anger management courses and speaking to him he comes across as someone who is genuinely sorry for the threats and is seeking to address is.

I was subjected to DV during my marriage but the minute it happened I walked away. I know not all women are like this. Not sure if I should give him benefit of doubt or just walk away.

OP posts:
Emz8914 · 20/08/2015 23:16

Actually he has every reason to have told you this. Say he was physically abusive, and he could well have been from what I've just read. it sounds to me as if he is playing victim so you will pity him and hate her. He gets your sympathy for having a crazy ex stopping him from seeing his son, you support him during the custody battle and maybe even help him while he is self representing, and discredit her for him when given the opportunity - much like you're doing here. An abusive man would do exactly the same.

I don't think you should make any judgement of her without speaking to her personally.

starlight2007 · 20/08/2015 23:45

Gosh...

Good luck Op...

no real point commenting you have made your mind up..I would be protecting my own child first....

Yes if you said she all the way through..I have cut people out my lives who seem to have too much drama around them...It is never there fault it all just comes to them.

Canyouforgiveher · 20/08/2015 23:58

The very first woman I met who had been the victim of domestic violence was a barrister (specialising in family law ironically enough). she took a while to leave too. And to this day I think wonders how this happened to her and how she actually put up with it for so long.

Who knows what really happened with this guy and his wife. What I do know is that I would absolutely not be bothered getting involved with this. Like others have said, life is way way easier without drama.

Too many red flags - including as the first and reddest one, the fact that he told you the first time you met in the pub. I think he spotted you and knows exactly how to play you.

But I may be wrong. Still all the risk to you and your child is in you getting together with him. If you don't get together with him no risk, no damage.

LucyBabs · 21/08/2015 00:14

Not much mention of ops own child in this sorry mess. Jut sympathy for the new friend and HIS son Confused

BoxofSnails · 21/08/2015 04:52

After 2 whole months you have:
-read ALL the court documents relating to this story
-analysed them to the point that you have a list of points that you find don't ring true
-posted on two forums about this man's situation.

I think you need to take a long hard look at why this is. No one has read my family court documents in full and I take maybe a year to confide the bare bones as new acquaintances become friends. I think that's quite normal. The Freedom Programme, for yourself and your assumptions and core beliefs, might be very beneficial indeed.

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 21/08/2015 05:42

She musts have felt very confident that he was going to threaten her if she was secretly recording him - or do you think that was the first and only time he did it and she somehow managed to engineer it? No, she knew he would threaten her because he had done it before, that's why she was recording.

You say there are photos of her with injuries - if he didn't do them, who did?

ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight · 21/08/2015 05:47

It's not at all normal to be so involved and invested in the life of someone you have only known 8 weeks by the way. Pp mentioned the drama triangle - also Google compulsive caregiving as this may fit you
It's therapy you need not dubious friendships with potentially abusive men

breadstixandhommus · 21/08/2015 12:51

I find it amazing that pretty much every poster has damned this man as an abuser. Why is it such a crazy idea that his ex could have made this all up for her own gains?

There is details in the story that suggest this could actually be the case.

This kind of thing does happen to men. My DP is, unfortunately, one of those men that had all sorts of allegations thrown at him. Within the first 6 months of the marriage break down she had accused him of battery, rape, emotional abuse towards her 2 eldest children, physical abuse towards the same children and more. This was all through her solicitor, nothing reported anywhere else, and the allegations were withdrawn after my DP's solicitor recommended that police and GP's were brought in to investigate as my DP was traumatised at being labelled an abusive, angry rapist on no foundation whatsoever. This has all been documented and filed with the solicitor, with copies being retained by DP.

Not once have I ever feared for myself or our dc. I certainly would never have walked away based on the allegations as they are just that.

breadstixandhommus · 21/08/2015 12:53

Bugger I've just realised I've somehow managed to skip 4 pages so not sure if every other poster thinks this man is as accused Blush

Offred · 21/08/2015 13:03

It's crazy because it is the least likely situation based on what the op has written about the situation.

All that aside I think any parent who brings a child or children into such an emotional mess is not thinking of the child. In addition any parent who brings themselves and a child or children willingly into a relationship with someone who is subject to these accusations is very unwise.

The majority of rape and abuse is not ever reported to police. It gets brought up in family court simply because it is forced out by the circumstances of being sued in a civil proceeding where a woman is having to defend their children rather than accuse their spouse/partner. Very, very occasionally it is made up and vindictive. Simply bringing things up at family court and nowhere else or being inconsistent is not an indicator of a lack of truthfulness.

Abusive people are not abusive all the time.

Smilingforth · 21/08/2015 23:36

It's very hard - good luck whatever you decide

sonnyson12 · 22/08/2015 13:02

Offred,

False allegations are frequently used by woman in the family courts in order to frustrate or destroy the relationship between a loving parent and their child.

It is not "Very, very occasionally" at all.

Offred · 22/08/2015 13:03

That's your opinion. It is not based on the facts because the facts say it is a very small percentage of family cases where that happens.

sonnyson12 · 22/08/2015 13:06

No they don't. It is not recorded.

Yes, that is my opinion based on my own personal experience and 6 years of researching family law.

You are stating false facts.

sonnyson12 · 22/08/2015 13:07

Take a look at the Rebecca Minnock thread, barristers and solicitors stating that these cases are far from being "very, very, occasional".

Offred · 22/08/2015 13:12

There is research on it, and yes it is very small.

sonnyson12 · 22/08/2015 13:14

There is no accurate research on false allegations in the family courts.

Offred · 22/08/2015 13:14

Take your agenda back to that thread. Please realise your posts are encouraging a woman who has a child to get into a relationship with the man described on the OP. It is not just about the accusations of DV. Would you honestly be happy and fine for the mother of your child to bring your child into a relationship with someone who has got her so heavily involved in his drama 8 weeks after meeting in a pub?!

Offred · 22/08/2015 13:15

And yes, there is research conducted by Exeter university which is very credible and sound. You are letting your own personal view cloud your judgement.

sonnyson12 · 22/08/2015 13:20

No, thank you.

I am not encouraging a woman to get into a relationship.

No, I wasn't happy when the mother of my child tried to bring our child into a relationship with someone she'd met after a few weeks. And when I had cause for concern it was dealt with severely, through the correct professional channels.

I have deliberately stayed away from any relationship for over 5 years, whilst fighting false allegations and have focused solely on my relationship with my child.

So I would say, keep children out of it and remain friends whilst the drama plays out, otherwise they'll be even more drama.

WorriedMutha · 22/08/2015 13:31

I agree that there are holes in her story and who knows, maybe she is playing the system to get custody. The relationship does sound like it was a basket case on both sides. I guess it seems you are invested and whilst you won't get anyone on here to rubber stamp your decision, just go into it with your eyes wide open. Better still, sit it out and keep things platonic. If he is genuine, he will respect this and let's face it, he needs to sort his shit out as well. In saying this, I am taking you at face value when you say you are not vulnerable so that you can look out for yourself in what could be a dangerous game for those easier to manipulate. Hope things work out for you.

differentnameforthis · 22/08/2015 14:31

Why didn't she leave.

He threatened to assault her, I wouldn't be surprised if he already had! When a woman makes her get away in secret, in the dead of night, or starts recording conversations, it isn't because nothing has happened, op.

By the sheer fact that you were slapped once (and I am truly sorry that you had to deal with that) & you left, you will probably not know the finer "workings" of DV.

You may not know that many women leave when he is asleep, or at work, at the football, because it is, to an extent, safer to leave while he is not around.

You may not know how these men operate.

You might not be aware that it can take several instances of violence before the woman even realises that she needs to leave, and once they break away, they will do anything in order to avoid the wrath of their perpetrator again, including withdrawing complaints, changing statements, refusing to give evidence.

Thankfully those who work with DV victims DO know this, and will be work with the victim. To you, it looks like holes, to her & her DV support teams, it's protection.

Of course he only threatened to assault her ... you do know that that isn't right, don't you? Decent men don't control their wives through threats of violence.

Also, when asked by the judge why she didn't call the police sooner, her response was "I was afraid the police will let him go and he'll come after me". Although that is generally a reasonable reason but for someone who is educated in law to use that doesnt wash with me. You never lived under the threat of repeated violence, did you op? Her response to not reporting it sooner is valid. She was scared of repercussions.

The most dangerous time in a DV relationship is when the victim leaves. That is when most deaths occur.

Im saying a lawyer who has studied criminal and family law is not going to tolerate DV for 8 years without doing nothing Listen to yourself! Sorry op, but you have been hit once & you think you know everything there is to know about DV.

Women go 20 odd years suffering at the hands of abusers, 30,40,50yrs by the very fact that they are conditioned to think it is their fault. They know if they leave they are at greater risk. More risk piles on if they dare to try to prosecute their abuser.

You don't know this woman, but 8 weeks in to a relationship with someone you barely know you are dismissing her as a liar, accusing her of using a system she knows well in order to prevent custody!

Wake up, please!! He already has you sucked in, op. You are believing his every word. You are far to invested & you cannot see the woods for the trees, which is exactly what he is banking on!

First & foremost, I think you need to address why, as soon as he realised you were a victim of DV, he thought it was OK to share this with you. Incredibly crass, imo to share the details he has with someone who lived it, especially when he has known you such a shirt time. It sounds to me like he is already trying to precondition you. Groom you, if you like.

Sounds like its working too.

Also, educate yourself as to what victims of sustained DV go through. There is so much out there to read, start with my link.

Because I am sorry op, but you know very little about it.

Atenco · 22/08/2015 14:48

I actually do believe that some women make false allegations, especially ones who have already abused their partners, but the thing is, OP, how would you know?

As I said above, I have a friend who was accused of sexually abuse of his 12-year-old step-daughter. From my knowledge of the family, I was pretty certain it wasn't true, however, I am not God, or a Judge (it never went to court). And I couldn't risk ever leaving him alone with my dd. It is terrible for anyone who is falsely accused, but as parents we have serious responsibilities.

differentnameforthis · 22/08/2015 14:51

There is no accurate research on false allegations in the family courts.

Yet you say

False allegations are frequently used by woman in the family courts in order to frustrate or destroy the relationship between a loving parent and their child.

fuzzywuzzy · 22/08/2015 14:51

I was accused in court by twatface's barrister that as I'm an accountant I couldn't possibly have suffered from financial abuse....

I reckon as a lawyer the ex knows exactly how badly the courts treat victims of DV, I had to fight tooth and nail and even tho there was police and medical evidence of DV in my case and I had a non-mol in terms of child contact the judge was so utterly dismissive of the DV I and to an extent the DC had suffered and the time and money it took to ensure my DC are safe. If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have put myself thro that.

I would not touch a man accused of DV with someone else's barge pole.

Frankly you know the following 'facts'
This man has said he was financially abusive
This man has said he was emotionally abusive
This man has said he has anger issues
This man has said he made threats against his then wife.

You know as much as you need about this man to be honest.

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