A friend accused of DV - should I stop talking to him?

[DeeDeeR]

I'm a single mum of a 8 year old boy. I separated from my husband 3 years ago due to DV. I met a guy two months ago and we have become great friends. I'm slowly starting to see him as potential for something more but haven't shared this with him yet.

He separated from his wife in January 2015 after he woke up one morning to find her and their 2 year son gone. He then received an ex parte non-molestation order. His ex wife accused him of DV since their start of the relationship in 2007 and submitted photos of bruises that she took in 2012 ans 2013 (a nose bleed, what appears to be a black eye and bruises on the arm). She also submitted a tape recording of an argument between them where he can be heard pleading with her to stop seeing other men behind his back, to just leave him and that if she doesn't leave and continues to have affairs he'll assault her. Although no assault takes place in the recording. The recording was made by her in secret one week before she left him.

Believe it or not, he told me all this on the first day I met him at the pub. At the Non-molestation order hearing he denied the allegations of physical assault but admitted to making threats. He said that his wife had subjected him to emotional abuse shortly after their son was born after she told him that she didnt love him and wanted to leave. However, she didnt leave but carried on with the marriage. This caused tension between the two and she would often go out of her way to antagonise him and goad him about her seeing other men. They had heated arguments but he claims he never assaulted her. He told the judge that his wife met someone else and has set up so that she could end the marriage in a way that she could get full custody of their son and restrict contact.

The judge considered the evidence and made "No finding of fact" in regards to the allegations but upheld the order since she thought it was better they be kept apart for a year.

She repeated the DV allegations at the first child custody hearing in Feb 2015 and was offered a 'Fact Finding' however she turned it down citing that the abuse was only emotional and financial. So the judge ordered a social service report, where she then repeated the physical abuse again.

He then received another social service report in August 2015 recommending that his son have regular unsupervised access to him since the son clearly misses the father and is visibly upset when having to say goodbye to his dad when contact centre visits come to end.

Two days after the report his ex gets him arrested for allegedly assaulting her in 2009. She claims he smashed her head across a sink and then went on holiday with mates for 3 weeks. She then repeated all the allegations she made in the family proceedings to the police.

He is currently released on bail and is being investigated.

I know all this since he opened up to me and showed me all his and her court documents. He is self representing in court and is alone in all of this and in need of friends. He says he is innocent but I'm scared what if he's not. Then again, if he is innocent I dont want to walk away and ruin a relationship with a decent guy.

His ex wifes story just has too many holes in in:

• She's a solicitor, and if he had subjected her to DV since 2007 why report it only in 2015. Why didnt she leave.

• why did she wait to tell the police shortly after the social service report and a week before the final hearing

• why did she turn down a fact finding at the first hearing

Then again, he did threaten her but he has self referred to anger management courses and speaking to him he comes across as someone who is genuinely sorry for the threats and is seeking to address is.

I was subjected to DV during my marriage but the minute it happened I walked away. I know not all women are like this. Not sure if I should give him benefit of doubt or just walk away.

I would walk away because this is just too much hassle. Why walk into such a problem?

If all that youre aaying is true, again id walk away. Who would voluntarily get involved with all that drama.

Have you spoken to his ExW, because until you do, you can't really say she has holes in her story.

FWIW I wouldn't touch him with a barge pole.

Walk away. Don't bother trying to work out who abused who - their messy relationship isn't anything to do with you and there's nothing tying you to him or the situation.

Even if he wasn't abusive to his wife, he's going to be involved in a difficult and stressful custody situation.

It seems like you are drawn to getting involved in a situation that is going to be difficult and unpleasant when you have no reason to. I second the idea of doing the Freedom programme or maybe some counselling to work out why you are so drawn to this.

You have a young child and I really think he should be at the centre of your decision making. Is it going to be good for him to get dragged into all this?

Jollyphonics your right.

Mindyourown, imo, her being a layer and practicing one at that is very important - she knows the law and the systems in place to protect women more than anyone. Also, when asked by the judge why she didn't call the police sooner, her response was "I was afraid the police will let him go and he'll come after me". Although that is generally a reasonable reason but for someone who is educated in law to use that doesnt wash with me.

I work in tescos and when I got slapped I got a Non-moelstation order on my ex immediately. Yes there are many women who wont know all these laws and systems in place to protect us, but for a qualified lawyer who studied criminal and family law to use that argument, doesnt ring true.

he admits to making threats - what sort of threats? Did he threaten to leave? To sleep with someone else? To not load the dishwasher? To hit her?

Tpel, I havent spoken to his ex but Ive read all her courts and witness statement. that is a window into her mind and her stories fluctuate and change.

yes, i am clearly personally involved in this. im just his friend and yes, my son is my priority. i wont risk it.

however, as someone who has suffered DV, it riles me up when I encounter women who lie about it to get the upper hand in courts. Ive met several and I cant help but shake the feeling she is one. I dont have to speak to her, I have read her statements and they are full of holes and contradictions.

Your argument that educated women cant be abused doesnt really work in reality. Someone who is very clear on the system will also know what problems this may bring

you can't have it both ways, on the one hand she's a calculated and skilled lawyer using her training and experience to frame someone and on the other her story is so implausible you can see straight through it

MadfatRunner,

he threatened to hit her if she didnt leave him because he didn't have the strength to leave her, because he loved her. I heard the recording. He is literally begging her to stop sleeping with other men behind his back and to just walk away and why she is subjecting him to it when she knows how he feels about her and that he cant walk away because he loves her and their son. She just remains silent through the recording, obviously because she is recording him to collect evidence. Her silence to her pleas just riles him up and then in the heat of the moment he makes the threat and walks away.

I wouldn't bother with a relationship with him, looking at the whole story, and the fact his wife is trying to stop him from having custody. Doesn't look good.

a lot of women don't trust the system, abusers are released and not charged, many women are accused of lying about the abuse. I was, oddly enough by the new GF who would go to any lengths to discredit me to convince herself her new BF was whiter than white. She soon learned what he was really like, even though I tried to warn her she didn't believe me. Are you honestly saying that this woman is a lawyer (not a family one I might add) - so therefore she knows the system so has made this all up. Can you not see how ludicrous that sounds??

I'm out. Good luck - you'll need it I fear.

Look, the absolute ?best? case scenario here - he has got a complicated life with a witch of an ex who is hell bent on ruining his life by lying to courts. Why do you want to get involved with someone with that drama going on?

You also seem determined to cast her professional qualifications in the worst light. Do professional women with responsible jobs never become victims of domestic violence? Do you think a registration with the Solicitors Regulatory Authority gives you a bullet proof personality that means you don?t get sucked into staying in DV relationships when objectively you should leave? Because, and I hate to break it to you, solicitors are just regular people with a particular qualification. I am one. And I can assure you that has not protected me from crap happening in my life. Well done you for leaving at the first slap (I genuinely mean that) but you don?t need to be on these boards for long to see that few women manage that.

Also rather than assuming that she is using some historic study merely to further her own aims, has it not occurred to you that as a solicitor she is an officer of the court and it can end your career if you are found to be lying to the court or seriously misusing its processes. Do you really believe she is putting her career on the line too in order to spite her ex? And whilst I?m a lawyer I don?t do anything near this area or have any experience of it (I practice in areas that are poles apart from this and don?t really know any criminal/family lawyers) so if I got into her position actually no I wouldn?t be familiar with what processes and procedures are there to protect me. And I wouldn?t have a strong knowledge, aside from what I?ve read on MN, as to what would happen if I reported DV to the police. I studied a term of criminal law nearly 20 years ago and it certainly didn't get near the details of this sort of thing. I am not an oracle on all thing legal related and she probably isn't either.

I think you?re desperate to see this as all a non-issue because you like him. But why take a substantial risk for you and your child when you don?t have to?

right

he didn't have the strength to leave but she can be condemned for not leaving him

sorry, I wouldn't go anywhere near anyone who threatened physical violence, and that's the absolute best we can say about this person based on your posts here

You've known him for 8 weeks. Fecking hell I couldn't be doing with the drama.

Calleigh, Im not saying that educated women cant be abused. Im saying a lawyer who has studied criminal and family law is not going to tolerate DV for 8 years without doing nothing. Until his recent arrest he has never been arrested. Not once in their entire marriage have the police been called. He had relationship before her and there is no history of this.

Anyway, I dont want to argue with you guys. I apologise if I upset anyone by the way I have defended him. I played devils advocate since that I though it was the best way to get good feedback.

I did the same on a male forum similar to this and as you can imagine the reponces were just as biased as the ones im getting here (but in favour of the man).

I prefer to judge based on facts and not a US vs Them/Man vs Women attitude.

Where to begin?

I worked in law enforcement for years. I still ended up in more than one abusive relationship. The last one took a long time to get out of. It was only when he got physical with the dcs that I was jolted into action. I had his entire family making excuses - he's tired, he's depressed, he's mourning (family member died) - and the ever present "you know men, that's how they are." It creeps up on you, you feel like you're slowly drowning, but you're hoping it's just a blip or that it will improve. You don't realise sometimes how bad it is, then when you do, you're too browbeaten to protest, or you can't summon up the strength to fight everyone else that is saying "don't be silly - it's not that big a deal."

ANYONE can be in an abusive relationship and struggle to get out. Cops, solicitors, anyone. And fear is a huge motivator in not ringing the police. I went to ring police once and he went absolutely nuclear. Scared me shitless. And I have worked for the police! I also know that there IS that chance that he'd be let go and come after me if I rang them. I've seen it happen on numerous occasions to other people.

Just because YOU left immediately after being slapped, that doesn't mean everyone else does. Everyone is different, has different histories, different situations - you can't judge everyone else by your actions.

Why in heaven's name you'd want to take the chance on him especially when you have a child in your home is beyond me. I think you're spending far too much time making excuses for him and not nearly enough time looking at it objectively. He's admitted to threats, admitted to an anger problem. His separation is very recent, and still playing out. You sound like you've bought his story hook, line, and sinker though, so I don't imagine anything we say is going to change your mind. Sadly, that's likely to mean we'll see you posting again in here in future.

with this type of victim blaming attitude it is little wonder so many women suffer DV and most attacks go unreported.

he threatened to hit her if she didnt leave him because he didn't have the strength to leave her, because he loved her

He threatened to hit her... because he loved her. Think about that. Long and hard.

Many many lawyers have stayed in abusie relationships far longer than 8 years
With all due respect why are you doing this? Posting on multiple sites, playing devils advocate. You've known him 8 weeks. Either you really enjoy the drama or you sound a bit obsessed with him

OP. Remain his friend and that is all.

Two sides.

IF the wife is manipulating the court proceedings to guarantee custody and limit access you being dragged into this could provide the wife with yet more reasons to manipulate and ultimately make life incredibly hard.

If that is the case it is not unreasonable to assume the recordings and current arrest is just another way to take control of the situation.

BUT IF he has assaulted her he is not only lying to you but to the courts and making his ex look a complete bitch/crazy. Again, it is not unreasonable of the wife to make the reports and allegations if she does in fact feel threatened by him and to do so after the fact. It happens an awful lot because people get the confidence to fact their abusers when they are no longer in constant contact.

What I do think has happened. Both parties have used emotional abuse towards each other. Her with the affairs, him with the threats. Its not on for either of them to do that even with a boy in the middle FGS!

They both had prime opportunities to leave the relationship and arrange access themselves. It's really not that difficult. The wife could easily have found a new place just as much as the husband. They BOTH decided to stay in the relationship with the emotional abuse coming from both sides and both decided to leave the boy in the middle of the whole damn thing.

It is a mess. If you want to be a friend do so but six months after leaving that much of a messy relationship the husband will not be in a good place to offer you the best of himself and would be unfair on his boy when he needs to rebuild and patch up their relationship post divorce.

mindyourown15 Wed 19-Aug-15 11:12:45
with this type of victim blaming attitude it is little wonder so many women suffer DV and most attacks go unreported.

^
Particularly if you're connected to the legal world when clearly you can't expect to be believed if you've been in an abusive relationship for a period of time.

TheClacksAreDown,

Why would make false allegations ruin her legal career?

We all know how the family courts work. Once someone is accused of DV then get put into a process and, unlike the criminal court, the onus is on the accuser to prove their innocence and do whatever is needed to convince the judge. Whereas the accuser, if found to be lying, is never punished.

Its telling that she turned down a Fact Finding Hearing at the first hearing. She if she pursued it she would have had to taken an oath and if found guilty she would be done for purgery. If what she says is the truth why turn down a fact finding hearing in a family court? especially when, unlike the criminal court, people are found guilty based on the balance of probability. Based on the responses I have gotten here, Im pretty sure he wouldve been found guilty. Why turn down that opportunity? Maybe as a laywer.

Also, how am I victim blaming? I'm just judging based on facts.

Also, he has admitted to making the threat and he is seeking help to address it. What about her emotional abuse on him? Interesting how some pick up on him threatening to hit her if she doesnt leave him, BUT take no interest in the fact that he is telling a woman to stop having affairs and to just leave him. This is on tape. She is heard admitting to having affairs. Why is she shagging around behind his back and still with him recording him?

For the record, I annoyed the guys at the male forum as well with a female centric defence. Bias and hypocrisy is the reason why victims continue to suffer at the hands of thugs. And when I say victims, I mean women and men.

the abuse was only emotional and financial

Can you hear yourself? ONLY?