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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
BeyonceRiRiMadonnna · 10/08/2015 13:41

OP I've only read unto page 3 and seriously......any man that comes into my life needs to understand I come as a package, if not, it's a deal breaker! Why are you even stressing about all of this, let him go back to his house and move on! No man is worth all this drama!

Even if he did all of a sudden start contributing, it will not be out of love, but begrudgingly, why would you want to surround yourself and your daughter with all that negativity? Not worth it!

Rafflesway · 10/08/2015 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 13:44

Ragwort I'd say the answer to that is that taking advantage of somebody isn't an assault on their intelligence, it's an assault on their self-worth. Sorry OP. I made a big mistake for the same reason once.

UnexpectedItemInShaggingArea · 10/08/2015 13:45

Sorry he sounds an absolute arse about money, which is a big, big deal. He also sounds completely joyless, that he doesn't respect you or value what your relationship brings.

bettyberry · 10/08/2015 13:52

For what its worth my OH (we don't live together yet) earns twice what I do. Yet he contributes to anything and everything if I give him the chance!

He even paid for DS school uniform today even though we a) do not live together b) he is not DS father (I get CSA to cover these things) and c) I can afford it!

We go out for meals we take turns to pay. Some weeks he stays he does the shopping other weeks I do.

If I move in with him my income will drop by half (tax credits due to disabled child) and even now he is OK with that.

Your DP is being mean, tight fisted and a bit of a tit.

he should pay half council tax (assuming you no longer get the single persons discount)

half the water bills. He drinks, shits and showers too.

Half the electricity, the gas even the food.

If he moved in with you then rightly he should talk on half the responsibility of everything. Even your child. You cannot pick and choose which bits of relationship you want and ignore the others.

LovelyFriend · 10/08/2015 13:55

I agree with many of the financial comments on the thread. But it is all a red herring to me.

I just don't see how you can form a new family with this man when he excludes your DD from the (financial at least) picture. I'd be questioning why you think this is OK?

It all sounds very horrible not only for you but also for your DD. I just couldn't imagine bringing a baby into such a situation. If he doesn't want to form a proper working family unit with you and your child now, think about how messy it will get when you have a baby, he goes "part time" and becomes SAHD, while presumably you get to continue to work FT to support the family. He seems to have some very clear ideas about his future - because he is so "very clever", whereas you OP, being not so "financially clever" won't be doing so well in the future either would you?

I don't see how you can be planning a future with him.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 13:56

Who wants this baby? If its you he will say its your responsibility. If its him, it will be half. There will never be just his. He is happy to pay half when it suits him, or nothing, but not all.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 14:03

im going to go against the majority of people on the thread give you have only been in a relationship for 18 months.

I don't see why he should pay for your mortgage when you wont give him a share of its worth. why should he? your asset - you pay for it.

you are very focussed on what he has in the bank - what does it matter what he has in the bank - he has worked hard for it. its got absolutely nothing to do with you neither do his shares or any other money he has.

why should he pay for your DD when her own father doesn't pay? YOUR DD is YOUR responsibility and her fathers responsibility - not his.

you have admitted you do live beyond your means why should he subsidise you after moving in?

the kitchen has added value to your house - you should bear the cost of it especially given their was structural work that wasn't included in the original cost.

TwoDrifters · 10/08/2015 14:07

I can't imagine knowing anyone I cared about was stressed about being in debt to the tune of £3,000 and continuing to merrily save myself £4,000 a month that I had no particular plans for! It would cost me no inconvenience whatsoever to clear their debt, we would both sleep easier for it, and because I love them, I would WANT to do it!

Taytocrisps · 10/08/2015 14:13

"DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD."

This reminds me of the scene in a book (The Joy Luck Club?) where the DH insisted on splitting the grocery bill and said the wife should pay for sanitary towels as it was her expense. It's the same level of pettiness.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 14:13

Peggy - interesting to see a different attitude on the thread. That's exactly how DP feels. He has worked very hard for his money. I don't deny that. DD is my responsibility and I do pay for her. I do struggle and why should it be his problem. All statements are true. But if roles were reversed, I would want to help. That's the difference. I'd feel an obligation to try and make the situation fairer for all concerned. Maybe that's why I have less money.

OP posts:
badtime · 10/08/2015 14:16

peggy, do you then think he should let the people living in his house live there rent free, or should he put them on the deeds? His asset, he pays for it.

He is living with the OP, causing a decline in her income (as she can't have a lodger, and she loses her child benefit it is foolishly assumed that a partner moving in regards the OP and her daughter as family), but he has not helped her make up the shortfall. It is not unreasonable to expect him to pay his way, covering bills and rent, not mortgage.

BathtimeFunkster · 10/08/2015 14:17

It all comes down to this:

He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train.

Why are you with a man who thinks this about you?

That is a massive insult to your integrity.

By staying after he said that, you have tacitly accepted that there is some truth in it.

Tell him to go and fuck himself if that's what he thinks.

You can't be so desperate to have another baby that you'd bring a man who despises you into your daughter's home?

badtime · 10/08/2015 14:19

OP, you do know that it is assumed that he will help with your daughters expenses, don't you? That is why benefits are cut when a partner moves in, or child maintenance payments are reduced if the NRP moves in with a new partner who has children.

PresidentTwonk · 10/08/2015 14:22

Please don't waste your time going to counselling with this muppet, just chuck him out. What a wankbadger. You need to think about what you'd tell your daughter to do if she was in this situation in 5 years and then follow that advice.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 14:23

Badtime - I know. I've tried explaining this to DP. He says it's irrelevant. He doesn't agree with the rules or how the government sees it.

OP posts:
WayneRooneysHair · 10/08/2015 14:25

It's a difficult situation and I can see both sides, more so the OP's than DP.

One thing I'd like to comment on, I've seen it time and time again on MN where a woman is advised to only contribute towards the house if she is on the deeds, why is it different for this DP?

TheMightyMing · 10/08/2015 14:27

Actually this has some similarities to one of my friends lives. She met a bloke when her little girl was still very small, no support from her absent father. Bankrolled the new bloke whilst he trained to be a solicitor, even to the extent of taking out a mortgage for a house for him to live in, but he didn't want her there as he didn't want to live with her daughter.
She eventually moved in with her daughter, who he refused to support and was horrible to.She later married the arse and had two more kids, he treated her like shit and left her for someone , in thousands of pounds worth of debt, negative equity ( he shafted her by remortgaging to the hilt on the pretence it for for them, he just used it to pay his debts off).

Then left her for someone else, she had to fight tooth and nail for maintenance. Luckily she has now met a decent bloke. Her ex however is now making his new life and kids equally as miserable.

Quite a prince! But we could see it coming from the start. Just think on OP!

TheMightyMing · 10/08/2015 14:29

I meant his new wife and kids, not life and kids. Can't imagine what they see in him , the weasel.

BathtimeFunkster · 10/08/2015 14:29

He says it's irrelevant. He doesn't agree with the rules or how the government sees it.

Right.

And on the basis of that, he's prepared to see you out of pocket?

How very principled of him Hmm

Seriously. A decent man who disagreed with the government would still see you were compensated for him moving in to your house. Particularly when he is the higher earner.

Has he no shame?

LovelyFriend · 10/08/2015 14:30

why should he pay for your DD when her own father doesn't pay?

Several people have made this comment on this thread and I just don't get it. This guys want to be a family/start a family with the OP, who is a single parent raising her daughter without contribution from DD's father. The reason he should "pay" is that is what families do. Families don't sit around with a calculator to figure out who eats what/consumes how much electricity etc and then calculates which adult covers what % of bills.

Imagine the spreadsheet:
OP - OP pays
OP'S P - P pays
OP'S DD - OP pays
NewBaby - OP & OPSP splits costs equally.
But NewBaby needs lights on for early hours of the night feeds, and DD1 has gone away to summer camp for 2 weeks. Oh heck how do we split the leccy bill fairly this quarter?

And it seems to be accepted that the participation for new partner should be based on what a useless piece of manhood her XP was. "He was rubbish and didn't act like a proper parent, so why should I? nah nah nah naaah nah!"

It's all insanely babyish schoolyard theatrics. It's not family life.

Here's a radical notion - why doesn't the OP's P say "I want to be a family with you and I understand that you come with your DD. It must have been hard doing that all on your own with her Dad's contribution/help - but no worries I want to help you and share your burden and be an equal partner in your life moving forward."

AliceInSandwichLand · 10/08/2015 14:32

Is your DD likely to go to university? If so, I think you should consider the financial implications there, too. I am not quite clear on what the situation will be in four years' time for the income you describe, but it seems likely to me that even if she takes out the maximum loans from the Government, you will still be expected to support her to a considerable extent. My DD1 is currently half way through her course, and even though she works over the summer we have to pay several thousand a year towards her expenses (our income is over the maximum threshold for support). If you are thinking that your costs for her will go down after GSCEs, I think you should think beyond that - how will you support her at that stage if you also have a new baby or toddler and your finances are tangled with your partner's then?

CatsandCrumble · 10/08/2015 14:34

I've tried explaining this to DP. He says it's irrelevant. He doesn't agree with the rules or how the government sees it.

Please explain to him that how he sees it is irrelevant. You have lost money by him moving in so he had better move out again. See if he can find anyone else to give him free housing.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 14:34

One thing I'd like to comment on, I've seen it time and time again on MN where a woman is advised to only contribute towards the house if she is on the deeds, why is it different for this DP?

No, she's advised not to contribute to the mortgage if she's not on the deeds. Contributing towards upkeep of the house is a different matter.

I have said there's no reason for him to pay towards the mortgage in this case, but paying rent is a different matter, particularly as the OP has lost the rent from her lodger.

Strawberryfield12 · 10/08/2015 14:35

Don't even think about paying him back 25k!! That is his contribution to the household. Because he lives with you gratis (agree that £475 a month barely covers his food and some utilities), he doesn't have to pay mortgage for his property. If he is not fine with that ask him to pay rent for living in your property, he would have to pay rent if he would live somewhere else. Might be a case that he owes you more than £25k for all the time.

Anyway, don't waste your time with that piece of s...t, he is using you and isn't even accepting your daughter as part as living with you. You deserve somebody who actually loves and appreciates you, but you cannot meat one if you carry on being with somebody who doesn't deserve you.

Good luck and hugs.