At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

[Fraughtfinances]

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

Sounds like OP doesn't need legal advice after all lol.

It is incredibly unfair of him to complain about you not having much money left at the end of the month when he has cost you money (CB) by moving in and by bringing forward the kitchen (given that your outgoings will reduce by £600 pcm in two years when DD finishes school, you might well have waited until then to do the kitchen if necessary).

Look love, I hate to be blunt but he doesn't love you and he doesn't view you as a family. If he did, he wouldn't be so resentful of contributing anything towards your daughter. He would be caring for her because she is yours.

Get rid - he is a leech and you are actually doing your dd a huge disservice by making her live with him. Cam you imagine the disparity between your dd and a new baby if you actually have a child with this man?

Meanness is a seriously unattractive trait.

And whilst 'DD's dad should be paying, why should I?' is a logical position, it's not exactly a compassionate position, is it? You've clearly tried via CSA to get money and not succeeded - so you have to deal with the situation as it is.

He won't pay towards your child's food? I find this unbelievable. But he's happy to spend 25k on a kitchen! (which in itself is a ridiculous amount) then expects you to remortgage to pay it back.
I second other posters in that meanness is such an unattractive quality and is usually not restricted to money.
This will be a nightmare if you do get pregnant. Please reconsider. I second the cat comment. He's not a family man

The kitchen isn't a red herring - you've made your cash-flow much tighter by doing it now and paying him back now. Alongside that, he thinks he should live in your house for free (bills only), which is stopping you getting rent from lodgers.

It might be the right time now to look at your finances and evaluate your life.
You both have totally different outlooks on money and that can be quite a difficult hurdle to overcome. How about you put the following proposal to him. You are willing to obtain a tentant once again to help out financially but as he is very much against this could he not pay the amount that you would have received from a lodger and this money goes to pay for the utility bills, gas/leccie, water rates etc?
It sounds like he moved in prematurely and he is sort of regretting his loss of freedom and space.
Money is obviously greatly important to him.
Perhaps you could sit down together with a peice of paper or spreadsheet and actually list all the incomings and outgoings. Perhaps when it is in black and white it will be more obvious. You can also work out if there are economies you could be making.
Under no circumstances whatsoever put his name on the deeds, unless he is going to put your name on his ones. It's time to take stock now. Don't let your desire for a baby blind you to the blaring obvious difficulties you are already encountering.

If you had done the kitchen in your own time would the costs have spiralled or was that his input?

Good point, Lumpy - that's quite an overspend. If you'd got £15k via remortgaging you would've had to find ways to control the budget

I honestly don't know about the overspend. Probably it would have spiralled in the same way. It required a lot of structural work and then various things came to light during the process that required further, unanticipated work. Some things I would have done more cheaply, but at the end of the day, the kitchen adds value to the house, so I don't want to quibble over it.

We've sat down, gone through spreadsheets, gone through my bank statements, gone through everything. It makes no difference.

I'm now trying to sort out a Relate session to try and see if we can discuss this with a third person. Who pays for the sessions remains to be seen.

I can completely understand that you didn't know he'd be like this before you moved in together. That's why it's so important to test drive people.

But the upshot is he's a selfish miser who doesn't want to be part of a family, and I have to agree with the posters who say he doesn't love you. Not that he's not fond of you, but I don't think, fundamentally, he has the remotest idea what love is. Money is what he understands.

I would willing to bet that your kitchen costs spiralled because he didn't want to compromise on quality and design. 25 grand is a fuck of a lot of extra debt for a single mother with a parent to care for. I really don't believe you would ever have spent that much if he hadn't been involved.

When you said he wanted to go PT if you had a kid, I wondered if he knew what the legal implications where if it came to a split, I wondered if he could be that calculating. If he's a lawyer he will know that the primary caregiver will likely get primary custody, so his selfishness may run to being unwilling to share any offspring & being prepared to set the groundwork from the off.

Have you discussed how finances would be managed if you did have a baby? That could be an enlightening discussuon

xpost - a kitchen adding value is a moot point if you don't want to sell.

If you were selling you'd recoup the costs out of the sale, if you're not all it's done is increase your debt.

If he insists on being put onto your deeds, can you do the same. Tell him that if you do have a baby with him, then you want to have equal share to his flat as he wants to yours.

Oh my goodness, how on earth do you find a man like this an attractive prospect in any way!

Please don't have a baby with him,OP.

And how horrible of home to reject your DD in this way. You're right that you come as a package, I cannot believe that someone on 85k who, as a result of living with you, has 4k money to spare each month begruges your teenager food!

"He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property."

I don't understand this. So, because he's not getting a share of the property, he thinks he just gets to opt out of paying ANYTHING towards your joint cost of housing? It makes no sense. How on earth does he justify this? Refusing to share costs for your DD's food seems mean spirited and selfish but at least has some kind of logic behind it, whereas this is simply not fair. At the very, very least, the profit he's making from his rental income should be going towards your mortgage, because he wouldn't be making it at all if he wasn't living in your house.

I also would not want to be with someone who thought so little of me that they accused me of wanting to use them to subsidise my lifestyle and use them as a "gravy train". What a horrible thing for him to say.

If your DP was still living in his own house, he would be paying his mortgage himself. By living with you and renting out his own house, he's making a considerable saving as his mortgage is now paid for by his lodgers. Strangely enough, he doesn't feel any obligation to offer his lodgers a share of his property even though they are paying his mortgage. You have lost money by losing the rent your lodgers paid. Your DP is doing nothing to make up this shortfall. But he has the nerve of accusing YOU of being careless with your money.

Also, if your DP is so concerned about your spendthrift ways, why did he encourage you to go into debt to the tune of £25,000 for the new kitchen? I would have expected him to tell you that if you can't afford it, you should do without.

Your relationship has got off to a very bad start (at least in terms of living together) and your DP has displayed a pretty nasty attitude towards you and your DD. I would have major reservations about continuing the relationship let alone having a baby with this man.

I think Relate is a bad idea.

The training is scanty, you can start practicing after a year of roughly 10 weekends training + coursework (although the full diploma is 3 years). As a consequence the quality of counsellors is highly variable.

You might be lucky and get a good one, or you may get a shit one who sides with your partner and tells you to spend more time together and be nice to him, and you'll end up more confused than you started.

Personally I think two intelligent, sensible adults should be able to sort this out between them, and if they can't there's something fundamentally wrong with the relationship - or rather with him.

This level of selfishness affects not only finances but the entire relationship. It's an issue that will never be resolved but will continue in different forms.

I can see why you would want to repay for the kitchen asap. I think subconsciously you are worried about him holding that 'debt' over you, plus if you split and for whatever reason you sold house would he want some of the profit as 'his '25k' paid for the 'improving kitchen' ?

When you had a lodger did they pay rent + bills + food ? if they did then that is what he should contribute , he effectively attributes the current situation to a flatshare and thus he should pay as if it is a flatshare...rent+share of bills + food. he cannot moan at you about feeling as if he in a flatshare and then not be prepared to pay rent .

Either this is 'the family' home and is treated as such and paid for by both parties ...or he is a lodger who pays rent.

You would not expect a lodger to want their name on the deeds just because they pay rent ....I cannot see how he feels his situation is different.

Plus you said he thinks you are bad with money ..yet you have single handed raised a child, bought and maintained a house and provided a private education for your dd...before he came along and moved in you sound like you were doing extreamly well given the circumstances..so look at it this way...why are you now struggling ????

because of him !
love isn't supposed to be like this.

Twinklestein, I agree, relate can be risky imo

You are clearly a bright, well educated professional woman - why on earth can't you see that this relationship is just wrong. It doesn't matter that your biological clock is 'ticking' - you financial attitudes are just so diverse that this is never going to work. What's the point of going to Relate after just 18 months together?

If this was your DD what would you advise her, would you really want her to stay with someone who clearly isn't right for her just so that she could have a baby .

Please, leave him, otherwise you will be back here in a few months/years - with a baby, and deeply unhappy. .

My DP has moved in with me while he saves a deposit for a house. We are on our third month now. I have lost WTC etc but not a huge amount.

I do not want him to contribute to my mortgage.

We sat and tried to work out a fair deal as he was paying £800 alone on rent without all his additional expenses on top.

He pays all food for him, me and my teenage son. He pays council tax, gas & electricity. He also pays my petrol.

This is all several £100 less than his rent was. So he is saving all his extra bills on top plus a little extra.

He has a budgeted plan on how much he wants to have by the end of the year.

I am using what I save to do household things I want done.

He comes in from work. Rolls up his sleeves and gets stuck in helping with cooking, emptying bins etc.

Your P is tight. He is happy to see you scrimp for you and your DD while his bank balance goes through the roof (and his mortgage is still being paid off).

This is not an equal relationship.

He may be happy to go part time if you have DC what will happen during your maternity leave? Will he pay for him and his child while you struggle on maternity pay to pay for yourself, DD plus an increased mortgage?

How about when his child is older? Will he spend ££ on this child for birthdays and Christmas while your DD gets nothing from him?

The housing situation is just bonkers OP, sorry. I can't comment on the aspect of paying for your child but when DH (then DP) moved in with me he had his own flat which he rented out. We then sat down and looked at the going rate for a room in a nice shared house in our area and agreed that would be a fair 'rent' for him to pay to me - plus of course half of all the bills. I hadn't actually had a loger previously so my costs went down, so did his because his 'rent' was less than the mortgage that his tenants were now paying for him. His flat stayed in his name and mine in my name. He never even vaguely suggested that it should be any other way - what you 'DP' thinks is reasonable is just utterly bizarre, how can he possibly think it's fair for him to have free housing!!

Glad to hear you're a lawyer. Not so reassured to read he is one too!