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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 11/08/2015 21:44

Liara has told you all you need to know OP, her way or no way ....

merrymouse · 11/08/2015 22:04

But Liara, do you tell your DH that you deserve monetary compensation because your lifestyle is diminished by living with him?

Is your home only happy when everything goes your way?

Is your DH anxious about coming home because he might find that he has done something wrong?

Twinklestein · 11/08/2015 22:07

Liara's post is all about her, it bears no relation to the situation facing the OP. The OP does not fritter away money.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 11/08/2015 22:07

When he's tired (and wants mango and coke) Sad

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/08/2015 11:02

But Liara the ops dp does waste money, he does fritter and squander it. He is deflecting the fact that he is hopeless with money by going on about op "wasting" in his opinion mere loose change compared to how many thousands he wastes each year by not investing his money correctly and not looking beyond his own nose. If he did not throw his weight around trying to make the op not buy small items for her dd which he considers are wasteful, if he had not quibbled over paying for her dds food, if he bought the op little presents he could have been having his mortgage paid for years.

The more I think of this guy the more stupid I think he is.

I personally buy the £2 pots of fruit because they give pleasure to my dc and by the time I'm finished carving up a mango it probably works out cheaper. however I wouldn't dream of paying £10000 on 4 windows and £25000 on a new kitchen. Just because you spend huge sums on big ticket items does not make you generous nor does quibbling over a couple of quid make you astute or careful with money. If anything it is the other way round.

suzannefollowmyvan · 12/08/2015 11:06

I wouldn't dream of keeping money in a CA (earning no interest) if I had a mortgage on which I paid interest.

He is paying for the use of borrowed money when he has unused spare money?.

Surely that is the behavior of the financially inept?

Oliversmumsarmy · 12/08/2015 11:08

Exactly Suzanne

suzannefollowmyvan · 12/08/2015 11:15

He's in no position to criticise, not a leg to stand on

Howcanitbe · 12/08/2015 11:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

lazycoo · 12/08/2015 11:24

We've not heard from the OP in a while - how are you, are you ok FF?

Inertia · 12/08/2015 11:44

Op, none of your posts give any clue about how the lives of you and your daughter have been enriched or made happier by this relationship.

Your partner has been very vocal indeed about how his lifestyle, finances and general happiness levels have been diminished by your relationship, and is quick to blame you and your daughter for that.

In fact, the only person who has benefitted from this relationship is the kitchen supplier.

Fraughtfinances · 12/08/2015 12:11

Was trying to post earlier but MN kept crashing.

I'm ok. Tired. More discussions and tears last night. I haven't slept very much.

I told DP about the feeling of walking on eggshells and sheer worry. He was very upset. He was also awake most of the night.

I asked DP how his finances had changes since moving in with me - what he used to pay at his old place, and what he has to pay now. He said he had no idea and that it was irrelevant to the discussion. This is where I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall. I do not, in any way, understand how the bottom line is irrelevant. To me, it's the most relevant thing of all. If he was paying £x for his old place, and is now paying at least £500 less than x, while I am paying essentially the same, then he is better off. He, though, does not and will not see it like this. There's some kind of block.

I do wonder if I'm going mad frankly. I don't know how else to calculate it. Nor how I am "taking advantage" of him by asking for more money. I've lived with another significant other in the past, and this was never, ever an issue.

I don't know if we park things until we can see the counsellor (which, for an evening appointment, may not be for a couple of weeks) or keep thrashing it out. If we leave things, then the atmosphere festers. If we try and resolve things, we argue.

OP posts:
RandomFriend · 12/08/2015 12:14

FF, are you still there?

I guess some of the posts make difficult reading. Sorry, OP, but it really does sound like he is potentially quite abusive. One of the earliest signs is being worried about going home in case of the atmosphere.

Please heed the early warning that you have detected and pack him off back to his place for him to enjoy his extra space (albeit at a slightly higher financial cost to him) whilst he is willing to go quietly.

Costacoffeeplease · 12/08/2015 12:15

I don't think either option is going to change anything - he sees it as irrelevant, end of. It seems as though you are banging your head against a brick wall, and sooner or later you'll have to stop, it might as well be sooner and save the headache. He isn't going to change, he's made that clear, and he doesn't even see why he should, so, as far as I can see, that's it, end of discussion, your lives are not compatible

ARV1981 · 12/08/2015 12:18

^ this.

You can't have a proper discussion with someone unwilling to see no other viewpoint than your own.

CatsandCrumble · 12/08/2015 12:18

I know that moving in together is fairly recent, so he is probably still thinking like a single person i.e. his money is all his and what has it go to do with you. However, if you do get married, that situation does change, but I'd be very surprised if his attitude does.

RandomFriend · 12/08/2015 12:18

Cross-post with OP.

If he was paying £x for his old place, and is now paying at least £500 less than x, while I am paying essentially the same, then he is better off.

Exactly. You are not going mad. He is better off financially living with you, but considers himself worse off in other ways (less space, etc). It is that he considers his lifestyle living with you as worse in some way than his previous lifestyle that is the problem.

Oh, and he is financially inept as well, as pointed out by other posters.

firebladeklover · 12/08/2015 12:19

Good way of phrasing it. Our lives aren't compatible. You're not a resource to be plundered.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 12/08/2015 12:23

There are ways in which you life becomes easier to live together. Shared house work, shared cooking, shared evenings, ironing, gardening, fun, laughter, some have monetary value, some dont.

firebladeklover · 12/08/2015 12:23

By the way, he does get it, he just won't admit he gets it because then what, could he say "I get it but nothing is changing". Or, "I get it but I like it this way". That would be obviously UNfair. HE would obviously be profiting from a situation that costs you. So he can't say 'yes, I get it, but I'm going to gaslight you into thinking the crux of the matter is irrelevant and then I'll continue living here, make you feel you owe me for the kitchen while you operate at a loss every month, feel beholden to me and I get to save each month''

He can't SAY that. Because then you'd know.

firebladeklover · 12/08/2015 12:25

ps.

YOU are not going mad.

This situation suits him much better than it suits you.

RandomFriend · 12/08/2015 12:26

I asked DP how his finances had changes since moving in with me - what he used to pay at his old place, and what he has to pay now. He said he had no idea

That seems a bit at odds with him pouring through your spreadsheets with you. It also shows that he is not good with money if he has "no idea" how or whether his financial situation has changed.

RandomFriend · 12/08/2015 12:28

I do not, in any way, understand how the bottom line is irrelevant.

He is gaslighting you when he says that it is.

FantasticButtocks · 12/08/2015 12:34

I think he's like a hoarder - but with money. Has he ever lived with a partner before? Because it's sounding like he has no idea how to live as anything other than a single man.

firebladeklover · 12/08/2015 12:36

ps, you are one half of the equation here FF, so your feelings, your interpretation of your finances, your interpretation of his finances, that can never be written off as irrelevant!