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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
suzannefollowmyvan · 11/08/2015 16:58

Chilling
and this thread really highlights the risks of forming a financial union with a partner ?

RandomFriend · 11/08/2015 16:59

Btw, does the letter takes in consideration amortisation over the years?

That is a good question. After what time is the kitchen debt written off, OP? Or did both of you lawyers omit to think of this?

Cloudhowe63 · 11/08/2015 16:59

Have finally read the whole thread. Apart from a couple of small details, you are in a very similar position to where I was about 18 months ago. I was a single parent to 2teenagers and holding down a professional job.
Had the same feeling of treading on eggshells and, although I couldn't articulate exactly why, had a sense that there was a financial unfairness at the heart of my relationship with DP. turns out he was a complete cocklodger
Posting here shows that you have serious reservations. Trust your gut.
You've had a lot of sound advice. This from firebladeklover in particular, "taking advantage of somebody isn't an assault on their intelligence, it's an assault on their self-worth."
You doubt yourself. Don't. You have successfully made a comfortable life for yourself and your Dd. That's a great achievement - and you did that single handedly! Who is he to question your financial skills when he's only kept himself?
It took a few months before I finally asked dp to leave. I pretty much used fires words. Told him I couldn't afford to keep him.

Thank you for posting. Despite all the frustrations and resentment, I was starting to wonder if it was really so bad when he got back in touch. Your thread has been a timely reminder not to drift back into it.

Cloudhowe63 · 11/08/2015 17:03

curious I would advise anyone to be very wary of opening a joint account. My understanding is that it creates a financial link which makes each of you liable for the other person's debts.

HelenaDove · 11/08/2015 17:46

Ive never been in debt or had a credit card. This twunt is already being financially abusive.

As for him looking for a relationship with a woman without kids instead.....im childfree by choice and i wouldnt touch him with a bargepole.

magoria · 11/08/2015 17:47

I worry about going home in the evening. Often everything is perfect, but I hate the atmosphere when it isn't.

Your DD has no choice but to live in this atmosphere when it isn't perfect.

Twinklestein · 11/08/2015 17:49

What you really want from the 'lightbulb' moment, is not just for him to see the light and change his attitude, but to change his personality.

I'm interested in this:

Something I've realised having started this thread is that I'm fearful of setting DP off or causing angst. I worry about going home in the evening. Often everything is perfect, but I hate the atmosphere when it isn't.

Can you give examples as to what sets him off? How does he manifest 'the atmosphere'? And what constitutes imperfect?

ARV1981 · 11/08/2015 17:54

I've just read the full thread.

I think you should ask him to leave. Make it temporary if you must (but at least 6months) - see if you're happier and better off living apart.

As for the £25k for the kitchen... interesting points being made about it devaluing over time - was this taken into consideration at the time the agreement was made? If not, then please remortgage asap and pay him back so you don't have to in year's to come (because you can't waste your life with this man - you only get one life, and eventually you will recognise this and leave him... or he'll leave you when all your money's run out and he's met some other willing victim).

The way he's valuing his change in lifestyle being worse now that he lives with you must be really hurtful. It's probably meant to subtly put you in your place - so call his fucking bluff and tell him to move out to get his superior lifestyle back!

Then buy your daughter a tub of mango, some diet cokes and whatever other "frivolous" foods she loves to indulge in!

BathtimeFunkster · 11/08/2015 18:29

I doubt the totting up would work. It wouldn't change his fundamental opinion that he is making all the financial sacrifices and I'm giving away nothing.

So his opinion that he is making all the financial sacrifices (which are what exactly Confused? What financial sacrifice is he making here?) and you are making none would not be altered by proof that the opposite is the case.

That means it's not an opinion, it's a position.

He approaches you, and your daughter, and any life you might build together, from the position that as a woman, you are a gold digger and he needs to protect his money from your grasping ways.

I can't get over the fact that you are planning to force a teenage girl to have a mean, judgemental bastard living in her home and causing atmospheres over things she chooses to eat and do.

I think you are being monumentally selfish to even consider inflicting this shit on her so that you can have another baby.

The fact that she gets on OK with her mother's boyfriend is no proof at all that he is a positive influence on her at a very impressionable age.

Oliversmumsarmy · 11/08/2015 18:29

Just an observation. If the ops partner had never been in debt, never had a credit card etc his credit rating is probably in the toilet. Which is worrying at the lack of foresight over financial matters. I wonder if he is not being penalised with a slightly higher interest on his mortgage because of his credit rating when he went to get a mortgage. Banks like to see money going in and out of accounts. They like to see people running up Credit card debt then paying it off, each month, it shows fiscal responsibility.

Have you ever pointed out that when he is whinging over the odd £ here or there you are spending he is losing £000s over not investing his money. Even just moving it to a deposit account would get him around £2400 per year more income. After tax that is around 50+pots of mango slices per month

Have you ever turned the table on him when he starts up about how you spend your money. I think the spotlight should be shone on his lack of awareness over money. £80k is not a lot in the grand scheme of things when you consider he doesn't spend anything. He has I presume always lived alone and he earns a very good salary.

Twinklestein · 11/08/2015 18:35

So his opinion that he is making all the financial sacrifices (which are what exactly confused? What financial sacrifice is he making here?) and you are making none would not be altered by proof that the opposite is the case.

That means it's not an opinion, it's a position.

If he believes it it's a delusion, if he doesn't it's a deliberate untruth.

magoria · 11/08/2015 18:37

He is making the financial sacrifice of having his mortgage paid for him and paying you massively less than he would if he were living alone!

He really has you believing this?

Strawberryfield12 · 11/08/2015 18:43

Continuing the amortisation topic, DP is using your furniture, appliances, equipment, is he paying you his fair share of the tear and wear of the same? All what you've got in your property is being used more intensively now because instead of 2 females there is also a male using the same, so their life span will be shorter and you will have to replace everything sooner. I bet your DP would not have missed an opportunity to pass you a bill for this expenditure if you would have moved into his place. And on top you would have to listen to his rant about the teenagers breaking everything up so much quicker and not being careful with things. From what you have written before, this would be exactly in his spirit...

Joysmum · 11/08/2015 18:43

Anyone can say they have a good relationship when things are easy.

The measure of a good relationship is actually how things are when things aren't going right and get challenging.

The fact that you are fearful of setting him off or causing angst tells me just how stay your relationship is. If these cracks are showing through when you've no real pressure in your lives I dred to think how bad things will get when the shit hits the fan at some point in the future Confused

pocketsaviour · 11/08/2015 18:57

Can I just say that I now really want a pot of mango?

But OP, all the further details you are giving make it clear that this relationship doesn't make you happy.

In your position I would ask him to leave, simply stating that it's not working for you and DD.

HelenaDove · 11/08/2015 18:57

"I can't get over the fact that you are planning to force a teenage girl to have a mean, judgemental bastard living in her home and causing atmospheres over things she chooses to eat and do.

I think you are being monumentally selfish to even consider inflicting this shit on her so that you can have another baby."

And over time she will begin to feel like a lodger in her own home. And resentment will build and build and build until the damage is irreparable.

BathtimeFunkster · 11/08/2015 18:58

If he believes it it's a delusion, if he doesn't it's a deliberate untruth.

A good point.

Delusions, however dearly clung to, can be punctured by contrary evidence.

If no proof will convince him, then he is choosing to believe what suits him.

Cloudhowe63 · 11/08/2015 19:33

Everything Strawberryfield said!

And, in letting him live in your home,surely you are enabling him to rent his home, covering his mortgage and making some profit. Wouldn't it be fair for you to benefit from that rental income? (Just a suggestion).

theredjellybean · 11/08/2015 19:36

Dear FF, I have read all the thread again tonight and one thing I haven't seen is this :
Why did he move in in the first place ???? He clearly has very deep rooted issues with money ( and women) and he is used to his own space which he clearly sees as important ( actually i get that bit ). So putting it bluntly ....he likes control of his own money, sees you as wanting him to subsidse you and dd and he clearly dislikes sharing a home with a teenager and possibly a woman...so again I ask...why on earth did he move in ??

If it was a case that you feeling loved up thought this was the next step for the relationship ( and I am not blaming you most of us would have felt the same) maybe he feels you pushed him into it...and it isnt what he wants ..so he needs to grow a pair and talk to you about it and move back to his place alone.

or if he suggested it ...then he is a manipulative controlling man and you need to be very very very careful...

I am sorry but i can see abuse written all over this scenario...and as to be expected you can't....intelligent professional women dont get abused ..do they ?

You seem to feel this is your issue to sort out and it is down to you to make this right...it isnt...you were fine before he moved in...how clever he is making you feel you and your lifestyle is at fault ( classic abuser tactics) and if only you change then he will love you

I think honestly you should ask him to move out for a while...you do not have to end the relationship...but get the good bits without feeling you are worried about going home ( YOUR HOME).

woodleydoodle · 11/08/2015 20:29

He sounds very, very controlling.
He seems to only be able to see things from his perspective.
He will not change.
I'll bet if your DD felt able to answer freely, she'd say she preferred things when it was just the two of you.
What does he ever do purely because it will make you happy? I mean things like bring you home your favourite bar of chocolate, magazine or a cheap bunch of flowers?
Is there lots of laughter in your household? It sounds tense and unhappy.
Essentially, you are not compatible.
I do think that your personal finances are precarious though OP.

starlight2007 · 11/08/2015 20:52

Do you know what worried me about you today?

You are waiting for the lightbulb moment..At what point are you going to accept there will be no lightbulb moment.

Counselling works for 2 people with problems that they want to resolve. I do not think he has any desire to resolve this. He wants to keep the status quo..

I worry so much that your desire for a baby is going to keep you hooked into this guy

sanityforlunch · 11/08/2015 20:55

If you 'worry about going home in the evening' how do you think your daughter feels? How is she expressing her fears and concerns?

Don't kid yourself 'often everything is perfect.' It's not. You say in your op you had been awake all night and have spent months arguing about money. That is not perfect.

He is a controlling man, a Mr Right (see opening thread on this board.) I had one like that and they only see things their way. I used to feel anxious about going home too, and the stepping on eggshells. He will never see things your way and a counsellor won't help him see things differently either.

Twinklestein · 11/08/2015 21:07

why on earth did he move in ??

Because he benefits financially from it, why d'you think?

KiwiJude · 11/08/2015 21:13

Eeek, he's a bit of an arse isn't he. DP should move back to his property so he can revert to his better lifestyle with more space and quiet, walk around wearing 15 layers of clothes and look at his ever increasing bank balance in the candle light.

Liara · 11/08/2015 21:34

I haven't read the whole thread, only the OP's posts, but I have to say I really understand the OP's dp.

Dh and I have a fundamentally different attitude to money. I am a saver, he is a spender. Early on in the relationship I wanted to have separate finances, as it drove me mad when he wasted 'our' money, but he felt uncomfortable with that, as he felt it was not what a real marriage looked like.

The solution has been to hand over all control over money to me. I make and set the budget, dh sticks to it or I take over the shopping (he has a tendency to spend on silly, unnecessary things which add up).

I cannot envisage a situation where I would have a 'lightbulb moment' and agree with dh's old way of doing things. It is wasteful and just, well, wrong. If he wanted to do it with his own money then fine, we would have to have fully separate finances. But so long as my money is involved, I just don't want to see it wasted!

The reality is that for someone frugal living with someone wasteful who then goes on to moan about not having enough money is very frustrating.

It is not the same as being mean/cheap, I will and have spent lots on quality stuff, and given thousands to family who needed it. I just really, really hate waste.

DH and I have now been together 25 years, and he sees my POV and agrees with it, but if he's not careful he does have a tendency to flip back to his old ways of buying pointless stuff (particularly when he is tired).

Fortunately our dc take after me!