At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

[Fraughtfinances]

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

"His behaviour all stems from his terror of me dragging him into debt."

It doesn't. You can't drag someone into debt without their consent. That person would have to knowingly sign things. His behaviour stems from being stingy.

It's definitely not because he's a cautious, responsible type.
My partner is the 'very responsible with money, saver, would live on marmite and toast' type and is far more generous with others than himself. Something for me or daughter, no problem, but he hates spending money on himself.

OP, it's none of my business, but I'd like to know: how does someone jump from: I'm not paying for your DD's food, but here's 25 grand for a new kitchen, you can pay me later.
Or: you can't afford nights out etc, but hey, here's 25 grand.

You see what I mean?

He is nowhere near being dragged into debt. He wouldn't be dragged into debt if he paid all your outgoings, and no one is proposing he does this.

Allgunsblazing I'm thinking that it is mentallly seen as an investment - ask for payment back short term...all goes well and he moves in? Longterm house flip.

Yy all guns.

I would like to know what his previous life or love life has been. I am not getting that he is controlling or cold as such in the relationship but more that he is overly precious about his own security.

I am not getting that he is controlling or cold as such in the relationship but more that he is overly precious about his own security

But that's precisely why people are controlling: they're terrified for their own security, terrified of being hurt - emotionally and financially.

That's why he's got to whatever age he is without a wife or kids. He has no idea how to do relationships, how to love, how to live. He sees all of it as a chance to be diddled.

What does he do at "family" celebrations, does he make you pay for DD's slice of birthday cake to celebrate his birthday?

I have read the whole thread..

Things that stick out to me - Your Poor DD.. a normal teenager will snack.. not eat all there food..God knows how he will cope with a toddler that refuses to try a meal you have spent ages preparing, or simply chucks it on the floor.. Your DD has also lost freedom.

I was not suprised when I heard he was a lawyer infact had thought so earlier.

I find it bizairre he will support your DD if you are dead but you have to struggle when you are alive.

I see some things that seem so much like a business .I worry about the comment ( no idea how correct it is though I am sure you are) that he has claim on your home as he paid for kitchen. I also see him working part time..Telling you that you can't afford this baby and need to go back to work then off her goes as primary carer of the baby.

is he going to pay any rent for his baby living in the house.

Another big concern if he is concerned about his loss of freedom living with you and a 15 year old ..Imagine how restrictive he will feel with a baby.

I can't see how this is working..I am sorry as a lawyer I do see you as incredibly naive not to discuss money.. however that is done.

I think your biological clock is influencing you.. You have done it all once on your own.. I know how tough it was however do you really want to do it all again unsupported.

I also think 15 years ago, your mom was well enough to help out. Now you are looking after her interests as well as DD, DP and new baby?

And ... sorry but saying you did it before so you can do it again (raise baby alone) is not the right mindset for entering into having a child.

For me living as a family means pooling all resources for everyone benefit. There is no way I would even consider living with anyone who did not understand this.life is too short to be splitting food , heating , petrol bills etc. Please do not even consider having a child with this man, sent him packing back to his flat where he can have many happy hours counting his pennies.
Sorry to be harsh but I guess he is getting sex out of this relationship what are you getting ?

It's wrong that him moving in has left you worse off.

He should pay MUCH more than a lodger, as he has so much more freedom than a lodger.

I really think you have to ask him to move out.

I don't think this man could cope with the expenses having a baby brings. Me and dh used to have the heating off until mid November (small terraced house both at work all day) to save money. When we had an early baby, neither of us even considered not heating the house as soon as it felt even slightly cool in September. Having the baby prompted us to get proper Internet (a few years back this was no iPhones etc) as we needed to be able to look up medical stuff/be able to function. We had to buy lots of baby stuff.

It goes on, you know what it's like. I couldn't be on maternity leave or longer begging this miser for money for essentials.

Let me get this straight.

If he paid toward your house he'd expect to have some equity I bet if you suggested his tenants should expect same he'd go insane.

The splitting food three ways would do it for me ,how mean spirited would you have to be refusing to pay toward s kids food. Her dad contributing is a red herring.

He's mean and he won't ever change. Here's why, he has this belief system around finances, he cannot see this from any point of view but his own, you've countered with your point of view every time you've being told Why he won't agree with you. He does not see a middle ground in fact he doesn't respect your feeling about this.

Id suggest maybe you re-think him as a long term partner. Sad as it may be ending this, its certainly better then getting in any deeper.

Lastly, the fact you're broke every month whilst he is saving the majority of his pay is absolutely shit.

His reply to the above is you spend to much! I agree with everyone that says you should not be worse off after he's moved in. You are worse off.

I'm afraid that I think money is/can be terribly divisive and hard to compromise on when you're coming from such separate viewpoints. I have a friend, who used to be a very dear friend, but who, whenever we went for a coffee,would count everything up 'but I think you'll find, you had a biscuit, so your share of the £3.50 bill is £2.25, and mine only £1.25' and yet would happily go for dinner, order the fillet steak or the lobster and happily say 'ooh, £100, so that's £50 each' (and I'm a vegetarian, so my share was normally massively cheaper!). I'm afraid whenever I go out with her now, the bill is split by cost, and always to her disadvantage, because I got bloody fed up with her selfishness inability to play fair. And she's a far lesser friend than she was.

Personally, I think life's too short, you never know when it will be snatched from you, and it is for living, but I can't abide being taken for a ride by selfish and greedy people. Hand on heart, I think most of my friends would say I am one of the most generous people they know, but I won't take being ridden for a mug.

Your chap sounds quite frankly revolting. Selfish, ridiculous, self serving and uptight. Where is the bloody joy? Life is tough enough for God's sake, why make it bloody miserable by arbitrarily making 'no fun' rules. And your poor daughter if you honestly think she hasn't picked up on this I'm afraid I think you're a bit deluded. Teenagers are good at appearing totally absorbed into their own weird world but are absurdly sensitive to environment - please ditch this prat.

I would not trust him to have child by him.

I would remortgage house to repay him and ask him to move out asap. 18 months into a relationship and he's arguing about money.
Where would you find money for your dd's education and food once you are on maternity leave?
He isn't a nice person at all.

I can't get past the idea of splitting the food bill 3 ways. I could never be with someone who would begrudge a child food. If that's not a deal breaker, I don't know what is.

People come in packages. Your daughter is part of that package. If he's got that revolting 'don't want to pay to raise another man's child' attitude, he's not accepting the full package that is you.

If he doesn't want the responsibility of looking after children, he is free not to pursue relationships with mothers, or not to live with you. But I can see why he wouldn't give up this sweet deal.

Years ago, when I was first with DH, not even living together, though together a lot of the time I paid for food for him and his daughter for a few weeks at different times when he was hard up (through no fault of his own) and I had a little left to spare. It's what you do when you care about someone isn't it?

It's ironic he feels that your attitude will drag you down into debt, yet you had budgeted only 15K for the new kitchen, but with his input/design you actually spent 25K.

I think the main problem with people who are mean and miserly, is that while it starts with money, that attitude soon filters into all aspects of their life, so they become mean with emotions, with caring and sympathy and of course with joy and delight.

The thing that bugs me, is that you seem quite normal,mom career, home etc, you have been doing this on your own quite sucessfully for years, and then 18 months ago, a man turns up, makes you question what you spend your money on, and then makes you believe your money issues make him fearful, hes scared that he will get into debt, so you have to change, to stop him being so fearful, yet he has the problem. You are now going to are a councilor, to discuss your issues. This focus needs to be on his issue with money, his fears, not yours.

I think your DP is right to be careful with money, and while I understand the reasons why you are living so close to the edge I don't think it's wise. But actually I think the rights and wrongs of the money situation are irrelevant.

Your DP is not ready for a relationship with you. No matter how well he gets on with your DD, you simply cannot overlook the fact that he won't even pay for her food. He places his personal financial concerns and anxieties ahead of any and all concerns of yours, ahead of his relationship with DD (what on earth would she make of this?!), ahead of your peace of mind, ahead of your vision of your joint future...everything. When really you should be tackling everything together, as partners. It doesn't even sound as if he wants to live with you - it's as though he knows he has to live with you to move forward with the relationship, but all the while he's denying the reality of what that means.

As I say, he is not ready to commit to you (or perhaps anybody). Possibly a touch of the risk-averse lawyer there? Whatever, I would think long and hard about having a baby with him. To you, money is just money, you see it as a means to an end. It sounds as though it means a whole lot more to him. Financial incompatibility is a deal breaker. It will plague your relationship.

I agree very much with the previous posters regarding his money issues and the unfairness of your current financial setup. But even leaving that aside, this was another big red flag for me:

"What I'm not happy to do is feel that he is judging me for my choices (having DD, sending her to the school she goes to) and feel that he is making a financial profit from being with me."

So this guy has let you know he doesn't think you should have had your daughter? Even if that was ANY of his business (clue: none whatsoever), what right does he have to be saying this, especially now that you DO have her (as a presumably much-loved teenager) and you are all meant to be becoming a family? If he is trying to make you feel bad about that decision now, that is pretty screwed up and also again suggests he really doesn't care about her.

It's also interesting that he seems to disapprove of single motherhood, but is quite keen to start making babies with you despite you being just as unmarried as you were then, and possibly just as likely to end up holding the baby alone, given he has already been considering what would happen if/when you broke up...