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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:57

And plenty of stepmothers (which is equivalent to the DP's position) would get their arse handed to them if they posted saying they'd moved in with a single dad with residency but intended to keep their money to themselves thank you very much, and in the meantime they wanted their DSD to drink water and not have a £2 snack.

CerealEater · 10/08/2015 18:57

The last post was very telling, the OP clearly wants another child and this is a way to get that. Very sad for the child as well as the existing one.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:57

Twinkle I'm not goading anyone - I genuinely don't see that the OPs partner is wrong in this case. As I said if it was a man writing the OP the answers would be different.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:58

OP, does your DP see himself as a stepfather?

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 18:58

No they wouldnt. They would tell him to run a mile from the gold digger.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:59

Peggy, you are wrong - try posting the reverse scenario on step parenting and see what happens. Actually, don't waste anyone's time.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 19:00

Thread's moved on a bit since I left work to come home so apologies if I don't answer all questions.

I've tried pursuing DD's father through the CSA to no avail. He's avoided paying a single penny for 14 years. If someone has a magic wand to make him pay what he should have done, I'd be happy to try.

Yes - my mother did subsidise DD and I to an extent. She helped towards school fees - she wanted DD to have a similar lifestyle to the one I'd had. Now I am trying to boost her savings as much as possible to fund a care home which is on the cards in the next six months or so.

DD's school is not an essential, no. But she only has 2 years until GCSEs are finished and no more school fees. I don't want to move her and risk her education. Yes - it's tricky, but just about manageable.

My credit card debt is at 0% and will be paid off within 10 months. That will free up some money too.

I don't know what the counselling will or won't achieve. At least we won't go round in circles.

I don't know that it's a control issue either. More a deep-seated fear of feeling foolish in some way if the relationship ended and kicking himself for risking his finances for someone. I don't know.

DD and DP do get on extremely well. I don't know how else to say it. They are very close. DP does have many good qualities. He also has high levels of anxiety about things and sees many things from an odd perspective.

OP posts:
Bakeoffcake · 10/08/2015 19:01

He's taking advantage of you! Someone else is paying his mortgage whilst he lives very cheaply at your house. He must think all his Christmases have come at once.

Do not have a baby with him. Can you imagine negotiating who paid for whatHmm

I hope your counselling goes well and you begin to see how much he is taking advantage.

Itsme247 · 10/08/2015 19:06

I've read the entire 14 pages of this post and there's lots of financial conversation, but not much emotional... OP you mentioned very early in the post that he was frustrated with you when at the end of the month you couldn't really go on date nights/meals out because you couldn't afford it but he could?

I'm sorry ... Why would you be with a man that didn't treat you with the love and generosity that any self respecting woman deserves? If you were in his position and wanted to go out for a meal with the man you loved but he was a bit tight for cash, you would pay right? But he doesn't...

His attitude to your DD is despicable and imagine the impact on your DD when, if you had another baby, that child is spoilt by their 'real dad' and she gets overlooked because her own dad isn't around through no fault of hers!

Itsme247 · 10/08/2015 19:08

Yes he probably gets on well with your DD because he is himself an overgrown child. I'm sure if your daughter knew that the man you lived with begrudged spending money on her 3rd of the food bill when she grows up she will realise what an absolute arse of a man he is.

middleeasternpromise · 10/08/2015 19:09

You are financially incompatible I would say and if you embark on a parenting commitment with him you will have a lifetime of arguing about your different values on money. I'm not sure he's the rogue others have painted him but he's just had a completely different financial life to you. Any lone parent managing with little financial help will have the sort of finances you have as its darned expensive raising children more so on your own. Out of interest do you equally want another child ? A friend of mine has made an arrangement like yours work but the do not live together full time it's about 50% of the time - good luck with it

FenellaFellorick · 10/08/2015 19:10

If you do have a child with him, what does he see that costing him?

Have you thrashed out the finances of a child together?

What about family savings?

One thing that caught my attention, as I notice it did a few others, was him bemoaning his loss of freedom.

It was something you mentioned very much in passing but I think it's important that you fully note it. If that is how he sees becoming a family with you - this will not end well.

Do you really want to build a family with someone who says hey, you owe me a quid for that loaf I bought because your daughter ate most of it. Hey, you owe me £2.50 for that coffee I bought you this morning. Here's 50p for that newspaper. I bought some ham last week and you owe me for half of it...
(I'm speculating based on how he feels about not contributing to anything for your daughter and only paying the bare minimum in everything)

I mean it's just so petty and not how people who see themselves as a family should operate.

MarchLikeAnAnt · 10/08/2015 19:17

But in what way does he show you that he loves you?

AttilaTheMeerkat · 10/08/2015 19:25

"DD and DP do get on extremely well. I don't know how else to say it. They are very close. DP does have many good qualities".

Write those down and post them here please.

Well you'd like to think that they get on well but I think that is a triumph of hope over experience. He sees your DD as an inconvenience (not least of all keeping a very close eye on what she is eating).

What do you think she is herself learning about relationships from the two of you. Is this really going to become her own "norm" in relationships too?.

You seem yourself to be in denial as to what is happening in front of you.

EssexMummy123 · 10/08/2015 19:33

Im sorry - have i got this right, he can save 4k a month but begrudges paying for you on a night out, what a lovely chap he must be.

WyrdByrd · 10/08/2015 19:36

I would say that as a minimum he needs to pay half the joint bills and half the food costs, and also if you had budgeted £15k for your kitchen then if you feel you have to pay him back then that should be it. You wouldn't have gone £10k over budget if it hadn't been for him.

Even if he did agree to all that, his attitude to your DD would really worry me. How on earth can he expect you all to be a family when he obviously sees her as 'separate'? How much worse will that become if you have a child together? Presumably he knows the situation wrt your mum too but doesn't seem to have taken that into account?

Regardless of the finances (and I'm not hoiking my judgy pants too much as DH and I have separate finances for similar reasons), I would be thinking twice about the future of the relationship on the grounds of his lack of consideration and commitment to your wider family.

Binit · 10/08/2015 19:39

His attitude is nasty.

You are a successful, independent, massive earner. You have your own house. You have done a great job of bringing up your dd. You can manage your outgoings and when they got big, you got a lodger in. You have no problems apart from this miserly twerp who has no idea about family life. His attitude is making you out to be some sort of feckless idiot. The fact that your mum has paid for activities etc for your dd is neither here nor there. I bet she gave that money willingly and was happy to be able to give her granddaughter some fun activities. The way you talk about that help is as though you stole the money from her purse or something!

Resenting the food your dd eats is just disgusting. It isn't like you have five teenagers scoffing everything in sight. It is irrelevant when already 2 people are being cooked for and the child of one of them shares it.

His issues would be a deal breaker for me. Particularly as your dd may end up with a university fee bill as your new baby is born. You might want to help with that but be unable to because of him.

I'd chuck him out and get a lodger. I wouldn't have a baby with him. Leave him to enjoy bathing in his money instead of living happily in a family.

Binit · 10/08/2015 19:40

Oh and I'd remortgage without telling him, write him a cheque for £25k and present it to him as you shove him out the door.

Zillie77 · 10/08/2015 19:49

My main concern is that you are still quite early in your relationship, but the bloom seems to be fully off of the rose at this point. Why is that? Where is the joy, the fun, the tenderness? Why is there this much drama and conflict, let alone this early in the relationship? It seems like a kind of grim situation to me.

iteminbaggingarea · 10/08/2015 19:52

middleeasternpromise is right. You have a lifetime of incompatibility ahead arguing over money. Which is basically your peace of mind/security in jeopardy...which it seems to be already.
This thread should hopefully ring an alarm bell. It's not normal to have an 85K wage, no rent outgoings and split your family food bill three ways.
He needs counselling over anxiety/control issues that are manifesting in his bank account ring-fencing - its probably less to do with avoiding commitment to you and more to do with lack of control of his life. Talk to him. He has issues.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 19:54

I don't know that it's a control issue either. More a deep-seated fear of feeling foolish in some way if the relationship ended and kicking himself for risking his finances for someone.

You don't think it's a control issue because you haven't seen this particular form of control a hundred times before, it's all new to you.

You're thinking it's an idiosyncratic quirk particular to your partner's character, his upbringing, his fears etc. In fact his attitude to money and control is very common, particularly in cases of financial abuse which is a more extreme manifestation. I've literally seen his behaviour pattern a hundred times before. He's not special and odd - he has very ordinary, very common problems.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 20:00

You say he and dd get on 'extremely well' and yet he is not prepared to part with a single penny towards her upkeep, despite wanting to start a family with her mother. That is not normal OP.

There are men and women across the country who earn far less than he does, happily taking on responsibility for their partner's children and not grudging them food, internet and heating.

However superficially well they communicate, he fundamentally does not care about her, does not want any responsibility for her, puts his own wellbeing before hers. He is not willing to take her on as part of a package with you, as part of his life.

Imagine how she would feel if she knew what his attitude to her as regards finances?

reup · 10/08/2015 20:03

How do you share paying for nights out etc?

Rafflesway · 10/08/2015 20:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

FantasticButtocks · 10/08/2015 20:09

I've always believed it is healthy to be with someone who thinks he's damn lucky to be with you. And I have brought my DDs up to require this in a relationship. He seems to see you, and also your DD, as some kind of millstone round his neck. Can you really bear to be this to him?