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Relationships

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At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
LumpySpacedPrincess · 10/08/2015 18:19

Out of interest what is his relationship history? Good relations that ended amicably? Does he speak well of his exes?

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:25

Actually the more you write the more red flags I see - not because of him though...

You have told us he pays more than your lodger and pays for food etc. so you are better off.

You have now told us your mother used to give you money/pay debt etc.

You are now giving your mother money but can't really afford it.

The bottom line is you can't afford your lifestyle. You may earn 52k but your living as if you earn 62k. If I was him I would run because you don't seem to be good with money and your history doesn't seem very good either given what you have told us.

You and this man are not a family - your gf and bf living together. Not sure why he is getting a hard time for not keeping your dd when no one has mentioned her father... She has a father and he should be paying not this new man.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:29

Bad time you said "peggy, do you then think he should let the people living in his house live there rent free, or should he put them on the deeds? His asset, he pays for it."

The difference is the man is renting his house out on a commercial basis and as such there will be a contract etc. - op hasn't said anything to him about renting... Maybe if she did sort finances before they moved in together this situation wouldn't have happened.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:30

Peggy, OP clearly stated she has tried via CSA and failed. Of course the father should be paying but he isn't and that's the reality.

", he's doing because he has massive issues with control."

This. And don't show him the thread - but note your fear at doing so even though I'm sure you have minimised and there are many more things like the heating and so on

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 18:31

Thats harsh. I think living with in your means, taking lodgers, small debt, own home, not much left, but hey shes paying for a teen, and school fees, thinks will look up after school fees finish and DD wont be home much longer. Most people spend what they have, most people dont begrudge a fruit pot. Most people pay their way.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:32

If this was a man writing this asking for money from a woman the tables would be very different. Everyone would be telling her to run because he can't control his spending and what he is doing is financial abuse!

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:33

Peggy usually is harsh, Sally.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:34

Yonic so because the DDs father can't pay or won't pay it is another mans problem?

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 10/08/2015 18:34

You say you struggle, yet your DD is at private school - not an essential in life.

You expect this man to pay for your DD - not his responsibility. Why have you not gone after your dds father for money.

But if he feels he has lost his freedom etc, then I don't think he wants to really live together. For gods sake don't have a baby together.

NerrSnerr · 10/08/2015 18:34

What is going to happen when you're on maternity leave? What it that coincides with your daughter going to university or needs something paying for.

I'm sorry but this is why 18 months into the relationship is too soon to be moving in together, especially when you already have a child and her emotional well being to consider.

FantasticButtocks · 10/08/2015 18:35

when you look at this side of him, OP, do you actually find him attractive?

His lack of generosity is a big part of his nature, though I think you would like him to learn how wrong he is and change. Because that is what would need to happen to make this relationship work. How likely is he to agree that there's something wrong with him and he should change his nature, himself?

Is it ok that he feels free to criticise your way of doing things? He's afraid of your attitude to money, but does he actually understand that you have been bringing up a child? And he has not, so has only had himself to look after. He doesn't admire you for what you have managed to achieve? But feels free to criticise the way you've done it?

Someone like this rather sucks the fun out of life Sad

LovelyFriend · 10/08/2015 18:36

Do bear in mind OP, if you do show him this thread (PLEASE DON'T) he will also be able to look up every other post you have made on MN under this username.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 18:36

OP isnt asking for money, shes asking to be in the same position prior to him moving in. She is supporting him, while he manipulates her into thinking hes doing her a favour. All the while making money on his rented out house, and him arguing the toss over a fruit pot. The issue is fairness, not gender

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:37

Sadly it's not harsh - it's reality.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:38

Sally, not sadly.

She's better off now Sally - she has said that herself. She isn't worse off. She isn't getting CB but he is paying more than lodger and also paying for food etc.

amothersplaceisinthewrong · 10/08/2015 18:39

Actually, why are you together at all -

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 18:42

Hes undermining the way she lives. If a woman rented out her own house, moved in, made him pay for a new kitchen, because it wasnt up to her standard, and then begrudged a child a can of coke when they could drink water. I see no difference?

Allalonenow · 10/08/2015 18:42

He hates spending any money at all
Well, he doesn't need to when he has got you to subsidise all his living expenses.

You need to work out the total monthly costs of your joint household, and divide that in proportion to both your incomes. Include the rent he gets as his income too. He won't like that much, but it will show you what his real attitude to you and your DD is.

Don't have a baby with him, he is just a cocklodger at present.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 18:45

Amothers, she has - she's gone to CSA who have been unhelpful as the father is self employed. It's upthread.

Peggy, if said man is not prepared to share those costs then he should not move in with OP and be planning a baby next year and inputting into the new kitchen. If they were both still in their own homes then it would be different.

Op's dd has an assisted place - plenty of grandparents would help bridge the gap for their grandchildren for private education, not sure why OP is being criticised for this too.

winterinmadeira · 10/08/2015 18:46

As far as I can see you are simply incompatible. Life is for enjoying as much as possible within your means. He just sounds like a miserable miser who is doing so at your expense.

Sorry to sound harsh.

FantasticButtocks · 10/08/2015 18:50

so because the DDs father can't pay or won't pay it is another mans problem? Shock OP has managed without his help for 15 years. She has been fine. Her DD has been looked after. He wants to join them in their house, and live with them and have a baby, he is loaded and quibbles about the food bills, while not contributing adequately; he's not doing anyone any favours here.

He has fallen in love with the OP and she has a child who has had no father. Surely, if DD's father falls short of the mark, then that is all the more reason to be kind and generous towards the woman he loves and her dd. not quibble about snacks etc. his attitude is desperately unattractive, and unloving.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 18:51

A propos of nothing, I have never met a man who was convinced all women were are after his money who didn't, at bottom, have a problem with women. And they tend to hang out in groups.

I've known many high earning men who may have attracted women who fancied some of it - but it didn't make them see all women as gold-diggers. They were aware that it could be an issue - in the same way that good-looking women are aware that some men want to be with them purely for their looks - but they just steered clear and went for women with better values. It didn't cause them to fear all women were trying to get their hands on the money. That's because they're all decent, well-adjusted, non-sexist men.

The fact that your partner's friends see you as 'grasping and selfish' when in fact he barely pays his way - is very telling - and also alarming. Is he even telling the truth? If so what has he told them about you? And why is he telling you? All of this should worry you.

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 18:53

From what I've seen Peggy generally turns up on threads to goad the OP.

Negative attention seeking...

rookiemere · 10/08/2015 18:54

One very apt thing I read on mumsnet a while ago. You don't have to justify have ending a partnership, if you don't want to continue it then that's a good a reason as any. I'm sure it was put much more eloquently than that, and I'm not sure it's something I agree with when there are joint DCs involved, but in this case it applies pretty well.

A small number of posters have reasoned that financially your DP shouldn't be paying more than he does already. This may or may not be true, but right or not the current scenario is not making you happy.

I can only imagine how much fun a night out with your DP must be, totting up the bill at the end to work out who had what ( unless he had the fillet in which case he's probably quite happy to go 50/50). Working out his fair share of the tip - incidentally what sort of a tipper is he?

You don't have to stay in this situation you know. He's got a flat that he'd be happy to move back to. You're going to have to pay the £25k either way, so if it's not working out like you thought, well there's an easy solution.

peggyundercrackers · 10/08/2015 18:54

Yonic I don't see the issue of living together as long as each know what they are paying for. Kitchen is neither here nor there - OP has said it needed doing, she was planning to do it and she would have done it much the same way... He gave her the money, she has agreed to pay it all back. It's all quite clear cut.