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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
Joysmum · 10/08/2015 16:38

I can't understand that you are focussed on finances when all this is just a symptom of the fact that he doesn't see your daughter or you as a family. No way I'd ever put up with anyone who saw moving in as 'lose of freedom and space' rather than a gain of 2 fantastic women in his last life. Confused

Werksallhourz · 10/08/2015 16:38

we had a row over a pot of ready-prepared mango that DP said was an extravagance. DP thinks I shouldn't buy things like Diet Coke and should drink water.

I could understand this if you were on the breadline and unemployed, but in your circumstances, with a joint income of over £130k pa, his attitude is alarming and suggests he has some really strange ideas about what constitutes acceptable spend.

Those pots of mango are about what? £2 a pot? I could understand it if you were talking about buying a pot every day, but it sounds like a single purchase, a spend of £2, set him off.

This is just not a normal attitude to money when someone earns more than 90 percent of the population. It reminds me of a Dickensian exaggeration of parish austerity toward the poor, where such attitudes were more about power over others and ensuring poor people were submissive.

Likewise, his core living costs appear to be £475 a month. I live in the North and you can't even rent a one bed flat for this kind of money in my area any more; I am not even sure you would get a house-share for much under this. He is paying no housing costs whatsoever through this set up with you.

If he is like this about a pot of mango, then I can see scenarios where he quibbles over the cost of baby items. Are you going to end up with someone who sulks or gets cross every time you have to buy another bag of nappies? Or who tries to stretch them out by not changing them regularly enough? Or who gets angry because the washer is always on and starts rationing washing powder?

I will probably get flamed for my last comment here because it is controversial, but my DM has always said that if a man is over 30, single and never been in a long term relationship, you have to ask yourself why. I don't know whether this applies to your DP, op, but if it does ... think on.

TendonQueen · 10/08/2015 16:39

Out of interest, did you discuss what would happen if he died suddenly, OP? Does he have a plan for what would happen to his assets then?

SugarOnTop · 10/08/2015 16:40

He hates spending any money at all...the £50 got rolled over because he couldn't spend it...I would be totally willing to give him control of family finances. I would be happy to have joint savings goals and work out what things we'd need as a family. I'd be happy to meal plan and to economise
where's your head at woman?! he's refused to do this before moving in and not doing this now even though he's got his feet under the new kitchen table! he will never 'discuss' and the result will never be fair to you or your dc. you will be expected to live on the bare minimum, forgo all the affordable pleasure and luxuries, saving every last penny 'for the future'. you've already admitted this. why would you do this to yourself and your dc?

Who pays when we go for weekends out to see his friends or family? Who pays for petrol? Who pays for plants for the garden? Who pays for meals out as a family? Who pays for holidays?
..look, you will be expected to pay for you, your dc and half towards the dc you have with him -he's already said time and again, that he refuses to "subsidise" me. Don't hold any illusions about you living as a family in the truest sense of the word, what is his will remain his and what is yours will become his...or the bank managers because he's left you in such a financially weak position.

this sounds more like a 'partnership of convenience' than a 'relationship'. He's willing to have a dc with you but only if things are done his way. he's got it all figured out, he's going to hold all the power when it comes to finances and 'ruling the roost', you will back at full time work asap after the birth to 'pay your way and the dc' whilst he plans to go part-time when we have children. His plan was to have enough in the bank to enable him to have DCs and work part-time. you do realise that he means money and time for him and his^ dc.. NOT as a 'family' with you and your other dc-unless you can afford to 'keep up'?

i'd just use him as a sperm donor if you're so desperate for another dc that you'd envisage inflicting this upon yourself and your dc, and continue to live separately and be in a stronger position all round..better that than live 'separately' under the same roof' and lose all your financial security and joy in life. how would you feel about him being the resident parent of any dc you have with him? because the way he has his future and lifestyle planned he will easily be able to afford to beat you in the courts if/when that day comes.
you and all dc you bring into this world deserve to live a much better life than the one he has in mind for you. you're a strong, intelligent woman and can have another dc without this life sucking vampire attached to you. I know you may want the relationship as well as child but honestly - he isn't good for much else, you will never live the 'big happy family' life with him.

FanOfHermione · 10/08/2015 16:40

Posted too quickly...

Sorry but you are really really not compatible money wise and tbh, even if he was making a huge ffort, yoou would end up walking on eggshell all the time.

You just CAN'T count the time each individual is spending on TV or on how many channels one watches to see how much you woud pay towards that. You can't have a go at anyone because they don't finish what is on their plate 'because it's wasteful'.
You can't even compare your heating bill with his because there are so many other factors to take into account (eg size of the house, how well insulated it is, how much time people are spending in it, eg coming back home at 7.00pm compare to back at home at 3.30pm etc etc)

He is making you feel uncomfortable in your own house. And I bet he is making your dd feel uncomfortable too. When he has just being moving in and you should be in a 'honey moon' phase where everything is great...

I'd love to tell you that you could try this or that to help. But i'm struggling to see what the heck you could tell him to make it bearable/manageable if he has this attitude :(

Georgethesecond · 10/08/2015 16:45

He sounds mean spirited, OP. Are you with him because you want another baby?

pallasathena · 10/08/2015 16:50

You sound like a woman desperate for a little love and affection in her life sadly. And he's probably rubbing his hands together gleefully while he adds yet more money saved by being with you, into his already plentiful pot.

Can't you see what this man is? Can't you see that you're being used? Is this the sort of relationship you should be modelling for your fifteen year old daughter?''

You are an educated, successful, professional woman for heavens sake...and you're putting up with this?

Isetan · 10/08/2015 16:53

This isn't a little difference of opinion but a fundamental incompatibility, you might as well be speaking Hungarian to this man, surely his attitude to money wasnt a complete surprise? I think deep down you suspected that you weren't on the same page and we're hoping that living together and the kitchen upgrade, might change him. You've let your biological clock drag you into an unsuitable relationship and its not just money where you differ, his attitude to your daughter and her care is concerning. Christ only knows what the dynamic would be if he had a biological child in this relationship, your children could have a very different standard of living because the biological father of one of them, doesn't feel responsible for the other.

It's time to take the blinkers off and given his attitude to your daughter, money is the least of your problems.

clam · 10/08/2015 16:55

God, reading this thread has taken me right back 20 years to my previous boyfriend and has made me shiver. He was loaded, but convinced that I was somehow out to fleece him. We used to have these ridiculous conversations going over who'd paid how much for what, with him certain that I owed him £££s because he'd bought the drinks last Thursday and mine cost more than his and so forth. It invariably turned out that we were quits or, often, that actually he owed me. The relief when I subsequently got together with dh and his generous and inclusive attitude was immense.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 16:59

Well, have got counselling ball rolling. It's not relate - it's another organisation. Should start this week or next.

This is a deal breaker and it needs to be resolved, one way or the other. I'm well aware that the situation is ridiculous but DP has odd ideas about a number of things and is wonderful in many ways. I don't want to sound deluded. I appreciate that if things don't change and if we don't come up with a solution then it's game over for the relationship. I don't want to live in an anxious atmosphere and don't want DD to either.

In a way I wish I could show DP the thread, but there's no chance. The fallout would be immense and it wouldn't make a difference to anything. DP would see it as me attacking him.

I appreciate the frustration among posters - I am taking everything on board. I am not a walkover. I have coped with relationship breakdowns in the past and can deal with them again if necessary. I've had one child on my own and can have another if I wanted to. That's not the issue. I just don't want to throw away something if it can be salvaged.

OP posts:
Costacoffeeplease · 10/08/2015 17:01

If you can't even show him the thread, then I doubt it can be salvaged

LovelyFriend · 10/08/2015 17:02

good luck FF

Skiptonlass · 10/08/2015 17:02

Your thread reminds me of this one :

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2325003-Divorcing-a-paranoid-narcissist

Please have a read of it. The lady in question was kept in poverty by her dh for a very long time while he built up a small fortune.

This goes far beyond a bit of "spender vs saver" type incompatibility - it may not be abuse right now, but it's certainly looking like its gearing up to be. Your daughter is fifteen years old and living with a man who begrudges feeding her. This is a terrible experience for her young self and could be incredibly damaging. It is NOT how a step parent should behave. My biological father contributed zero towards me - my stepfather has given me support, love etc. if I showed him this thread he'd be horrified.

I note with concern that he's a lawyer. In which case his significant contribution to the kitchen and desire to be on the deeds becomes very worrying indeed. You're an intelligent woman, but this alone doesn't protect you from men like this. You need to start channelling your inner badass and get him out.

Please, please kick this man to the kerb.
Remortgage and pay him back ASAP.
Get him back in his own home.
Get your lodgers back
Reassure your daughter that she and you are an inseparable team.

Rjae · 10/08/2015 17:03

I would try some joint counselling if you are determined to stay in this relationship. Maybe someone can get him to see how unreasonable he is.

It's really about trust and his lack of it in you regarding money.

JennyOnAPlate · 10/08/2015 17:04

He isn't terrified of getting into debt when he has 80k sitting in his current account...he's just a free loading miser trying to excuse his behaviour.

I hope the counselling can help you resolve your issues OP.

Rjae · 10/08/2015 17:05

Tbh. He sounds like a penny pinching minor, and I can see no happiness for you unless he changes. Give him 6 months and an ultimatum to get it sorted and make sure you have 100% contraception in the meantime.

Taytocrisps · 10/08/2015 17:08

It's your life but his attitude to money seems to go right back to his childhood. I'm not sure how easy it will be to reverse those ingrained beliefs. I wouldn't mind but you work full-time. I can only imagine what he would say if you told him you want to be a SAHM when the new baby comes.

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 17:08

I feel bad for your daughter now! My teenage dd snacks a lot too. And then leaves some of her dinner. It's normal. I hope your dd isn't picking up on your tolerance for this miserliness. It sounds like you're so aware of his meanness but you're gritting your teeth and putting up with it. I mean this really kindly but it is a bad thing for your dd to witness. And they pick up on very subtle nuances even if they can't quite articulate what it is that they've picked up on.

ps, and in all seriousness, he did not look at the heating bill and tell you that his 'share' was less than your share?

You have got to get rid of this guy. Sad

Ragwort · 10/08/2015 17:10

Please, please, please just take the advice that so many mumsnetters are giving you, and at least save money on the counselling (hope he is paying for it Grin) - do you really want a 'compromise' relationship. He is a Lawyer - so he knows what to say to keep you and the counsellor sweet, things might improve in the short term, but it won't last.

You are not doing your daughter any favours by staying in a relationship like this - you haven't answered the questions about how you would feel if this was your daughter being treated in such a disdainful way in a relationship.

You don't have to walk on egg shells - you just need to show him the door. Why are you so reluctant to end what is clearly not a respectful, loving relationship?

bettyberry · 10/08/2015 17:12

clam Sounds just like my ex ex! he got snotty because he worked and I was at uni. Hard going course couldn't work many hours part time. He yelled at me for daring to go to weatherspoons for a curry and a pint for under a fiver! not to mention he took all the savings we had for DS baby things and the house we were meant to rent because he 'worked more therefore it was his' it wasn't his. It was a student grant I had been awarded for the summer. I ended up homeless, pregnant and without a penny :(

Ragwort · 10/08/2015 17:12

Tbh. He sounds like a penny pinching minor, and I can see no happiness for you unless he changes. Give him 6 months and an ultimatum to get it sorted and make sure you have 100% contraception in the meantime.

I can't even understand why you would want to have sex with a man who comments on the cost of the heating bill and a packet of mango. Hmm? What exactly is his appeal?

firebladeklover · 10/08/2015 17:14

Yeh, that'd kill it for me too.

Melonfool · 10/08/2015 17:14

"£475 per month is cost of utilities, minus mortgage, divided by two, plus a bit extra. Original amount suggested by DP was £450. I had, prior to him moving in, envisaged splitting utility bills (inc. mortgage) down the middle (which would mean he would have paid £585, plus money towards food etc)."

Your utilities are over £900pm but your mortgage is only £220pm?

He might be right about your attitude to money if you pay £900pm towards utes.

Ours is:

£100 pm heating oil
£60pm electricity
£34pm water
£12 TV licence
£35 phone and bb

Our CT is just over £200pm, but you didn't mention that? Even adding that I can't imagine paying £900pm, is it a really big house? (it can't be if you only pay £220pm mortgage....) Ours is 5 beds, 3 floors, so uses quite a bit of electricity etc. Oh, you also said about sharing a bathroom, we have three so none of us has to share if we prefer not to.

Have you included insurances? Our annual house contents and building is £240. I have a friend who pays c£900pa due to being in an old listed building.

CiderwithBuda · 10/08/2015 17:15

He will never see your side because he has a fundamentally different attitude to money than you do. You will always walk on eggshells because of this. Being shocked that your DD buys snacks and arguing over a pot of prepared mango or buying diet coke is the actual key here. He would rather save than spend. The fact that he couldn't actually spend the £50 he had allocated himself to spend is quite telling.

If you do stay together and have a baby what happens when you are on maternity leave? Your income will reduce. How will things work out then?

My DH is an accountant and is fairly careful. His approach to buying soft drinks etc is to check the deals at the supermarket. So I might buy a six pack of cans of coke. DH will buy two eight packs because they are cheaper that way.

Some people penny pinch because they have to and that is fine and normal. Some people penny pinch so that they can save for certain luxuries like holidays or whatever. Some people just penny pinch because they are a bit joyless. They would rather watch their savings grow than enjoy any of their hard earned money.

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 17:15

The counselling is free (funded via work Employee Assistance programme). He is a lawyer but so am I! I can hold my own when it comes to the law (I'm a litigator - he is not).

But I take on board the points you're making and will be making them myself.

OP posts: