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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

At an impasse over finances and how to move forward

670 replies

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 10:23

Name changed for privacy. Trying not to drip feed and apologies if this is long.

Background: DP and I have been together 18 months. I have a teenage DD whose father is not involved and does not contribute financially at all (never has). DP has no children.

DP owns his own house (not outright - there's another 15 years on the mortgage). I own my house (23 years left on mortgage). I have slightly more equity in my place that he does.

DP moved in to my place earlier this year. He rented his place out and currently has tenants living there. His place essentially pays for itself (technically it makes a profit as DP will have a small tax bill to pay on it each year). The idea is to think about having a baby next year.

Prior to moving into mine, we had some work done on my house. This comprised structural work and a new kitchen. The work had been on the cards for later in the year, but DP is a keen cook and loathed existing kitchen, so paid for the work which ran to more than envisaged (c. £25k rather than the original estimate of £15k). My plan had been to remortgage later in the year and use the money to do the kitchen then. As it is, I'm in the process of re-mortgaging in order to pay DP back the £25k.

Foolishly, we didn't sit down and thrash out how financials would work between us when DP moved in. I'd previously had lodgers in the spare room to help with living costs. When DP moved in, we agreed no more lodgers as it would make the place feel cramped. I'd assumed, wrongly, that when DP moved in, we'd split the household bills 50:50.

In terms of overall financials, I earn £52k and DP earns around £85k. I have no savings and a small amount of debt (around £3000 on credit card). DP has significant savings, shares and no debt. My monthly outgoings (in direct debits/standing orders alone) are around £2500 (not including food or petrol). A significant amount (around £600 per month) goes on school fees (although DD has an assisted place). I have very little disposable income.

DP's outgoings are only what he contributes towards the household which is currently £475 per month plus some money towards food (which is still not agreed). DP wants to split the food bill three ways as doesn't feel he should contribute towards the food costs of DD. He doesn't contribute towards the mortgage as feels that if he did, he would want a share of the property. I don't want to put him on deeds, as he already has a property which is being paid for by his tenants.

We've been arguing over this for the past few months and still have no resolution. I feel that he is profiting from the relationship (essentially he can save in excess of £4k per month, whereas I have about £100 per month disposable income and no hope of saving). I have lost my claim to child benefit since he moved in (although it would have been reduced partially owing to my salary). He feels I want to use him to subsidise my lifestyle and use him as a gravy train. He also feels I am emotionally blackmailing him by saying how it upsets me that he won't contribute towards DD's food costs.

I would really like some recognition that we're living as a family and that we share some of the burden (and I have no expectation that DP should pay towards things like school fees, school uniform or anything like that). Even if it was a gesture along the lines that DP would pay for meals out (if we go out for dinner or to the cinema) or holidays. Instead, I feel criticised for the choices I've made and the lifestyle I've lead. DP is fundamentally a saver; I am not. I accept that. I accept too, that I've put things on a credit card and paid if off later, rather than saved for it beforehand. I have an excellent credit score (have never defaulted on anything) but do have a lot of stress about finances and lack of money. DP has never once worried about money.

We spent all of yesterday arguing - the issue continues to crop up again and again when I am down to my last few pounds and worrying how to economise before payday, and DP is angry that I'm in the situation. At the moment, I have around £300 to cover food/petrol/going out/school uniform until the end of the month.

I was awake for hours in the night, as was DP, just getting more and more upset and stressed. I feel utterly drained. I don't know how to resolve this. My friends think DP is being unreasonable. His friends think I'm selfish and grasping. I'm trying to arrange to see a counsellor so that we can talk things through in a neutral environment. I just can't see how we move forward without one resenting the other. Nor do I know how on earth we'd manage finances if we have a baby.

Any comments or suggestions most welcome.

OP posts:
Costacoffeeplease · 10/08/2015 15:34

I don't want to be nervous if DD leaves food after a meal, because she's had enough

For this alone, chuck his sorry, miserly arse out asap, what a complete dickhead

Twinklestein · 10/08/2015 15:35

This isn't about your finances, which he is clearly trying to take control of and screw you over royally, this is about his attitude to your family. You and your daughter. He doesn't care about you.

This.

fourquenelles · 10/08/2015 15:36

He is a miser. Pure and simple.

TendonQueen · 10/08/2015 15:39

Right, so he could easily afford to 'subsidise' you, but won't. So his money means more to him than his love for you. That is the first, and biggest, thing to consider here. It's not even that you want his money, we can see. It's that he thinks it is more important to keep hold of his money, every last penny of it, than it is to make you happy and secure. That will govern your whole life if you let this go on. In the meantime, it is filtering down to what you eat and drink. To add to the maddening pettiness of that, I notice that he thinks you should live by his standards (so not drink Diet Coke) but he doesn't think he should live by yours or the government's (the rules about live in partners being 'irrelevant'). That's hypocritical and will make him an increasingly exasperating person to live with. He's got you believing that because he has a load of money in the bank and says he doesn't like spending or waste, his morals, values and attitude to life is right and yours is wrong. It's not the case. I think you need to tell him he is too inflexible and self-centred to have a happy future with.

LovelyFriend · 10/08/2015 15:40

I don't want to walk on eggshells.

and yet you are Sad

SugarOnTop · 10/08/2015 15:44

he sounds like tightfisted, selfish, manipulative and controlling cocklodger.

IF he wanted things to be fair and equal (as much as can be given you are intending to become a family ), then the finances would have been sorted out a long time ago - especially given as you are both lawyers! The bills would also be split in proportion to your incomes.
He chooses not to discuss household finances with you because he isn't interested in anybody elses way of doing things. i doubt he has problems discussing finances with his clients! The fact is that he doesn't want things to be fair - he wants to always be in a stronger position and hold most of the 'power'...and he's using manipulation ('fear' of debt) and twattery (everything else) to achieve that.

If you being in debt was such a worry to him then he would never have willingly allowed YOU to be in a position of owing £25k OR having to remortage earlier than YOU had planned. Can you see how he's manipulated you there op?
He's got you thinking my approach to money is irresponsible...I don't live within my means....I probably shouldn't be paying school fees given I can't afford them easily....I shouldn't go on holidays...Or buy presents for people...I probably over-compensate towards DD ...yet you can afford your normal lifestyle on your own -plus helping out your mum - and have been doing a bloody fantastic job of it for years. your plans and finances only went to pot AFTER he moved in and it wasn't even because of any of the above !! you've also lost an extra £60 and increased your monthly mortgage. You are now in a financially 'weaker' position than before - just the way he wants it.

According to him he is only paying you what he considers to be fair - and you are already in a worse off position than you were when living separately - wtf?!

suzanneyeswecan · 10/08/2015 15:44

he's living in your house (ie your territory) you're not tied together by anything like marriage/children/joint mortgage and yet he is being very controlling.
He clearly feels perfectly within his rights to lay down the law now

Imagine what he'll be like if he really gets his feet under the table :(

RandomFriend · 10/08/2015 15:46

I don't want to walk on eggshells.

Have a look at this link, OP. Is there anything other than the financial side that worries you?

www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/index.php

JimineyJelickers · 10/08/2015 15:47

fraught you say you're slightly better off with him there, but he is MASSIVELY better off living with you. Also a lodger wouldn't have a row over your daughter buying some pre-prepared mango (WTF?!) Please don't marry him. Chuck him out. He's a stingy miser and he's going to make your life unbearable.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 15:51

I agree, a lodger wouldnt care who ate what, if you turned the heating up or had a bath every night. You are not compatible. You would never had learnt this, but you know now. How you spend your money is up to you. With him there he is dictating how you spend, pot of fruit ffs... left over food, he is miserable, unless hes spending your money on what he wants.... £25k kitchen is not frugal.

Floralnomad · 10/08/2015 16:05

I'm usually a fairly polite person but seriously OP TELL THIS MISERABLE FUCKER TO TAKE A HIKE , don't let him spoil your relationship with your dd with his nasty ,miserly attitude .

magoria · 10/08/2015 16:08

You are walking on eggshells.

Soon, if she isn't ready, so will your DD be.

Get him out now.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 16:16

Are you sire it as £25k exactly? Do you have the bills?

ovenchips · 10/08/2015 16:20

Hi OP. You say that apart from the financial side you feel you have an enjoyable relationship with your DP. I am sure you are right.

You sound like a lovely 'sorted' person and come across as someone competent, capable and fair. You have obviously felt secure enough in relationship to think about having a baby. So far so good.

But then he moved in and you are now seeing what a massive, fundamental and frankly irreconcilable difference there is between you both about money. You say you think you've reached an impasse and I would agree.

The thing is, the more serious and merged your lives become in a relationship the more money does too. You can't move in together without financial implications, as you have found. You can't have a baby together without financial
implications either.

So his attitude to money is not just one small aspect of him that you can agree to disagree on. As you've already found, it makes things even like your daughter buying some fruit an unpleasant experience.

Given what you've said about his miserliness (I really don't think that is an OTT term in this instance, he seems to want to hang onto money actually for its own sake) and his parents' similar attitude I think the attitude is far, far too entrenched for him to change. That's what his parents and him have been like for their whole lives. He has given you zero indication that his attitudes towards money have changed or will change. He's showing you quite clearly they will not.

It's awful to think you have planned a future and a child with someone and just be starting out on that future, only to realise that you need to abandon that idea. But I'm afraid I think you may need to.

Scarydinosaurs · 10/08/2015 16:22

I cannot see how this can move forward. I think you need to suggest you carry on your relationship in separate houses, you will never be able to make things work whilst he is refusing to take any parental responsibility for your daughter. The two of you come as a package. What would happen if you died? Would he refuse to care for her?

Fraughtfinances · 10/08/2015 16:26

We actually discussed what would happen if I died the other day. He would be happy to look after DD. When I hurt my back a few months ago, before starting a new job, he said he would have been happy to step up and cover all household expenses if I hadn't been able to work (luckily magic chiropractor sorted me out).

It seems that everything stems from a fear of my attitude towards money (which is a lot more relaxed than his).

OP posts:
ovenchips · 10/08/2015 16:28

Sorry, I also wanted to say that you wanting to help with your mother's care costs will be seriously hindered by your new living arrangements too. That is not acceptable either.

suzanneyeswecan · 10/08/2015 16:28

sure
but talk is cheap
and he would say that wouldn't he Hmm

SweetAndFullOfGrace · 10/08/2015 16:31

I don't want to quibble over the heating bill when he says his was less, because he wore more jumpers and closed doors. I don't want to argue over his contribution towards Virgin, because DD watches more channels than he would and uses the internet more for watching Netflix. I don't want to be nervous if DD leaves food after a meal, because she's had enough.

Wow. He said those things? That's beyond miserly, that's obsessive. I mean that, he has some kind of psychological issues with money that seem like they go beyond a normal level of discomfort with debt.

And he's being controlling. He may choose to run his life in one way re finances, but where does he get off telling you what to do with your money?

Melonfool · 10/08/2015 16:33

Dp and I have different attitudes to money. I save it, he spends it without realising he has done.

Every man I have ever lived with has been financially better off as a result of living with me. I have been worse off (loss of lodger income, having to live their lifestyle etc). But I've never counted it up as such.

I try to be scrupulously fair in all financial matters but it is hard as everyone has different attitudes.

Dp has a ds, I have no children.

Dp now earns more than me, he didn't when we got together. We pay into a joint account for all joint costs. Dp pays something like £150pm more than me as a nod to dss costs re food and holidays. It doesn't cover the extra but it is a token amount by him. Obvs he pays maintenance as well and we don't have dss all the time (though nearly all the time currently).

On the other hand, we each pay £50pm into a savings account for dss. Now you could say he may as well pay £100 into the savings account for dss and not pay any extra into the joint account for day to day costs, but it's more of a gesture than anything, the result is the same, but the amounts are on those lines on the budget spreadsheet.

I don't like the sound of this man one little bit.

He sounds like he has a mean spirit. Remortgage and pay him back the £25k. Don't move in with him. I really would not want him to be the father of my child (oh, it's OK to go into a relationship thinking how you would handle a break up, unromantic, but OK).

FanOfHermione · 10/08/2015 16:34

But I just can't live like this. I don't want to quibble over the heating bill when he says his was less, because he wore more jumpers and closed doors. I don't want to argue over his contribution towards Virgin, because DD watches more channels than he would and uses the internet more for watching Netflix. I don't want to be nervous if DD leaves food after a meal, because she's had enough (DP hates any kind of food waste). I don't want to walk on eggshells.

FanOfHermione · 10/08/2015 16:34

But I just can't live like this. I don't want to quibble over the heating bill when he says his was less, because he wore more jumpers and closed doors. I don't want to argue over his contribution towards Virgin, because DD watches more channels than he would and uses the internet more for watching Netflix. I don't want to be nervous if DD leaves food after a meal, because she's had enough (DP hates any kind of food waste). I don't want to walk on eggshells.

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 16:37

You have less money at the end of the month than him because you earn £30k less and you have a child.

That's not rocket science, FFS. You'd have considerably less than him even if you lived apart.

Sallyhasleftthebuilding · 10/08/2015 16:37

So come winter, and he puts a jumper on, but you dont, and turn the heating up, does that change his share? Does DD have a friend round for tea change his share? These are such small basics in life, that shouldnt be a big issue? What would happen if there was a big issue? You seem to constantly have excuses for his behaviour, yet his behaviour speak volumes. He drinks water so everyone else has too? Oh but thats his up bringing? Ok i was raised on the breadline, we were starving as kids, yet we were lucky some friends were worse of. Should I starve my kids? We didnt have central heating .. shall i take that out? Women didnt drive ... opps ...

YonicScrewdriver · 10/08/2015 16:37

The FFS was at him not you!